China Southern - Have they improved ?

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Gold60

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Hi All,

I am looking at going to Ho Chi Minh City in November for a few days before having a couple of days in Phnom Penh ( a bus job), and a few days Bangkok. I was either going to go with Singapore or Vietnam Airlines, but am having some thoughts about CZ.

Most of the reviews on China Southern on here, and other places, don’t seem to be on the real positive side of the ledger.

If I am mainly interested in getting there safely, and the seat quality – the rest of it is pretty neither here nor there – just wondering what people think of CZ.
I was attracted to their PE fares, but Singapore in Economy is doable – I am a bit tall, and temporarily slightly on the wide side.

Any ideas please? :)
 
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If safety then Singapore without question and why wouldn't safety be the no. 1 reason to fly any airline.

I work with a Vietnamese mechanical engineer who works in regulatory compliance now, he tells me he doesn't fly Vietnam Airlines when he returns for a visit. His comment is good enough for me.
 
If safety then Singapore without question and why wouldn't safety be the no. 1 reason to fly any airline.

So long as they take off from the right runway.

On a more serious note China Southern run a relative new fleet of aircraft and haven't had a serious incident for a very long time. I wouldn't be worried about flying withdrew.
 
Hi All,

I was attracted to their PE fares, but Singapore in Economy is doable – I am a bit tall, and temporarily slightly on the wide side.

Any ideas please? :)

In you saying that I would not consider travelling China Southern in Y. Their seats are narrower and when I was travelling, I had my neighbours shoulder in my chest. We were merely saved by the fact that it was a half empty flight and could swap seats and have a spare one in between us. Have a look at the seat width on SeatGuru and compare to SQ and you should have a clearer picture.

Safety wise I would chose SQ over China Southern any day.
 
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Assume you mean CZ when you say CS......

What specifically do you want to know about CZ?

Here is CZ PE on A330-300 CAN-BNE 2 weeks ago:

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01471092659.jpg

01471092697.jpg
 
Assume you mean CZ when you say CS......

What specifically do you want to know about CZ?

Here is CZ PE on A330-300 CAN-BNE 2 weeks ago:

View attachment 76835

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Thanks, mushez. Yes sorry i do mean CZ - CS was my abbreviation for China Southern. I presume that you find the service OK - seeing as you fly it - obviously there are better airlines about ??

if we assume CZ are a fairly safe/professional airline to fly on, your reply does make things fairly tempting. i am not that concerned about the food - you can always take your own snacks if needed, and i would hope they have a reasonable supply of water on board.

in your opinion, what was there service standard like - were they easy to book with, OK to contact if you needed to change things, were the staff at least reasonably friendly?

in short, was your flight value for money ?
 
Thanks, mushez. Yes sorry i do mean CZ - CS was my abbreviation for China Southern. I presume that you find the service OK - seeing as you fly it - obviously there are better airlines about ??

if we assume CZ are a fairly safe/professional airline to fly on, your reply does make things fairly tempting. i am not that concerned about the food - you can always take your own snacks if needed, and i would hope they have a reasonable supply of water on board.

in your opinion, what was there service standard like - were they easy to book with, OK to contact if you needed to change things, were the staff at least reasonably friendly?

in short, was your flight value for money ?

I choose to fly CZ at a last resort, and did so because of price. Plan to write a trip review of my last flight, first two times I had log in issues on the mobile app to do so - Maybe will today........

My Y+ was an operational upgrade on my CAN-BNE leg, did the rest in Y. Not a seat free on the plane - even in J on that leg.

I normally fly EK, BNE-SIN and then MU from SIN-PVG - however price, time, and fact EK direct to SIN is currently not active because or runway works, combined that I needed 46kg of luggage allowance - which CZ was my only cheap solution for that, it had my hands tied.

I have no issues about CZ safety, if anything I find most mainland Chinese Carriers are pedantic about safety these days.

They are value for Money. $780 AUD return BNE-SHA - plus popped my 787 cherry.


My biggest issues flying CZ are:

1- Delays. It is more a Chinese Mainland Airline issue, as the airlines have zero control over it, and it is the Civil Aviation of China dictating what aircraft can get into the sky. If you have less than 2 hours delay from your departure time, you are doing well. This will have you not knowing what your arrival time might be and need to think in 4 hour ranges of possible transport solutions from the airport to where you are heading for or to the hotel. My worst was on a CZ flight earlier this year from BKK-CAN-SHA - 7 hour delay, where our BKK flight at 8am landing fine at 11am fine, and instead of our 1:30pm onwards flight to SHA arriving at SHA at 4:00pm, was delayed until 10pm, arriving SHA at 11:30pm. In my case hotel free shuttles stopped at 10pm, and had to que for a taxi for 45 minutes to get to the hotel - but for someone not accustom to it with plan B & C thought out, they would be high and dry.

Avoiding flying a Mainland Chinese airline will avoid this massive, will happen, but by how much issue of flying with a connecting flight in Mainland China. If you are flying via a mainland China connecting flight - the earlier in the day you can be, the better chance you get to fly on - and not be canceled and do an overnight.


2- Food & Beverages. It is passable if you are hungry, but only just at times. It isn't as easy to get more than the rationed QTY they are wanting to give out during service, but sure if you press they will reluctantly help you out. And there is no ice. Oh for a warm, flatish, coke.


What I love about CZ:

1- Price - but only if they are cheap. There are times they are spendie, so only use when the price is right.

2- 2 x 23 = 46kg Luggage allowance. I wouldn't touch them for ex AU flights otherwise, why my last ex AU flight with them was 2010 when it was 23kg prior to my last flight

3- Customs at CAN - since I fly them to enter or exit China, this is a factor for me. Customs are a non issue, only once - and that was my BKK-CAN-SHA flight earlier this year, that I have had to get my Checked in Bag, walk past customs, and re-check it in for domestic flight. All other times, including last time - it was simply transferred to domestic flight and no need to be pestered by Customs at all. Historically that has not been as much of an issue, but past 12 months Shanghai customs have started to ask me questions about my excessive luggage which at times take the form of cartons. Never have an issue with anything I have when they check it all out, but when you are not held up 30 minutes for them to poke through your stuff, it is a bit of a win.

4- Direct ex BNE flights, soon to have MU as an option from December though. Keeps the pain down a little, and direct to PVG with MU from December will win me over which equalizes the delay issues.
 
My biggest issues flying CZ are:

1- Delays. It is more a Chinese Mainland Airline issue, as the airlines have zero control over it, and it is the Civil Aviation of China dictating what aircraft can get into the sky. If you have less than 2 hours delay from your departure time, you are doing well. This will have you not knowing what your arrival time might be and need to think in 4 hour ranges of possible transport solutions from the airport to where you are heading for or to the hotel. My worst was on a CZ flight earlier this year from BKK-CAN-SHA - 7 hour delay, where our BKK flight at 8am landing fine at 11am fine, and instead of our 1:30pm onwards flight to SHA arriving at SHA at 4:00pm, was delayed until 10pm, arriving SHA at 11:30pm. In my case hotel free shuttles stopped at 10pm, and had to que for a taxi for 45 minutes to get to the hotel - but for someone not accustom to it with plan B & C thought out, they would be high and dry.

Avoiding flying a Mainland Chinese airline will avoid this massive, will happen, but by how much issue of flying with a connecting flight in Mainland China. If you are flying via a mainland China connecting flight - the earlier in the day you can be, the better chance you get to fly on - and not be canceled and do an overnight.
.

I have to agree with you on this one. Delays... we were delayed for 6 hours in Shanghai with no explanation at all, and no staff at the airport spoke any English and everyone ignored us. That was until hubby got so annoyed and exploded like a Hong Kong Businessman and all of a sudden got someone trying to explain using sign language, pen and paper. It didnt help the issue though, we missed out connecting flight. They initially wanted us to wait for the next flight to Perth (2 days later) but we kicked up a stink and got moved to a SQ flight later that night. It got me that no one seemed to care or listen unless we argued and raised our voices, nothing that I would normally do and nothing that I am used to.

Talking to other people here at home, it seems to be quite common that any Chinese airline is delayed and late. I would avoid them at all cost if I had any connecting flight and I had to rely on them to be there on time.
 
I have to agree with you on this one. Delays... we were delayed for 6 hours in Shanghai with no explanation at all, and no staff at the airport spoke any English and everyone ignored us. That was until hubby got so annoyed and exploded like a Hong Kong Businessman and all of a sudden got someone trying to explain using sign language, pen and paper. It didnt help the issue though, we missed out connecting flight. They initially wanted us to wait for the next flight to Perth (2 days later) but we kicked up a stink and got moved to a SQ flight later that night. It got me that no one seemed to care or listen unless we argued and raised our voices, nothing that I would normally do and nothing that I am used to.

Talking to other people here at home, it seems to be quite common that any Chinese airline is delayed and late. I would avoid them at all cost if I had any connecting flight and I had to rely on them to be there on time.

Delays in China are common - almost always air traffic control or weather related. 6 hours is at the longer end but not rare. More often delays are in the 1-2 hour range. Your experience of Shanghai is unusual, most staff speak English - particularly for the basics such as delays. Cathay Pacific and Dragon Air are the other carriers (along with the mainland ones) that are almost always subject to delays, particularly on the PVG-HKG route. Delays on other carriers vary, but HKG and domestic are particularly bad.
 
I often see very cheap airfares from CZ in SE Asia but have been reluctant to book any flights on them.

My concerns are not about air safety but my general comfort in economy. Narrow seats on full flights just don't do it for me
 
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So long as they take off from the right runway.

On a more serious note China Southern run a relative new fleet of aircraft and haven't had a serious incident for a very long time. I wouldn't be worried about flying withdrew.

The fleet age has very little to do with anything.

A glance at Avherald is always interesting. Most of what is shown for all airlines is just the day to day trivia. Stuff happens, and it's mostly handled with minimal fuss.

Looking at China Southern, most of the entries are also fairly trivial, but a couple stand out.

Incident: China Southern A319 at Cheongju on Mar 18th 2016, runway incursion forcing a B738 "go around" the A319

Incident: China Southern B738 at Wuhan on Feb 25th 2013, collided with NDB antenna on approach but managed to climb away

These are both 'own goals', and very close to being something you read about on the headlines.
 
Narrow seats on full flights just don't do it for me

For their 737's there is really no difference in seat comfort than on a Qantas 737-800, although if you get an A320, in which case the seats are wider. Stereotyping here, but probably better than QF for cramping as generally the passengers are smaller framed than your typical QF passenger.:oops: Haven't flown internationally on CZ, but have domestically within China, if flight length is <3 hrs then they are OK.

For their widebodies, stats are similar to QF (perhaps 1" extra seat pitch on some aircraft, CZ 32" vs QF 31").

Basically what I'm saying no different to most carriers in terms of comfort. Where you hear most complaints is odd in flight service, communication difficulties (both of these not really an issue on flights <4hrs) and bad handling during IRROPS.
 
For their 737's there is really no difference in seat comfort than on a Qantas 737-800, although if you get an A320, in which case the seats are wider. Stereotyping here, but probably better than QF for cramping as generally the passengers are smaller framed than your typical QF passenger.:oops: Haven't flown internationally on CZ, but have domestically within China, if flight length is <3 hrs then they are OK.

For their widebodies, stats are similar to QF (perhaps 1" extra seat pitch on some aircraft, CZ 32" vs QF 31").

Basically what I'm saying no different to most carriers in terms of comfort. Where you hear most complaints is odd in flight service, communication difficulties (both of these not really an issue on flights <4hrs) and bad handling during IRROPS.

cz uses widebodies on key domestic and intra-Asia routes, and the 777 is configured 10 abreast for regional. narrow and uncomfortable :(
 
cz uses widebodies on key domestic and intra-Asia routes, and the 777 is configured 10 abreast for regional. narrow and uncomfortable

To/from SE Asia (which JohnK mentioned) they predominantly (only?) operate narrowbodies. The 10 abreast 777's are no different to 330s or 737's in terms of pitch/seat width (actually, maybe they have bigger pitch), and are fine for flights up to 3-4 hours. Not great for longer flights though.

If people have an issue with that for relatively short flights, I really don't know how they manage to fly around Australia where widebodies are scarce outside PER-East Coast routes.
 
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