Changing oneworld crediting FF program mid ticket no longer allowed?

[dajop]

My partner is mid way through a D Circle Asia fare, and taking SYD-MEL this afternoon. As BA gold (OW Emerald) he has been crediting previous sectors to BA, but wanted to put SYD-MEL sector to QF due to minimum points guarantee (1250 QFF points vs 550 Avios). When trying to change the number at business lounge he was advised that as of today you can no longer change the FF program you credit to after you have taken first flight on an itinerary.

Is this new policy or just a new creative excuse?

 

[Kangol]

Sounds like bollocks, but I wouldn't be dismissing it completely.
The few times I've changed my QFF to my AA number at the MEL J lounge, I've been asked if it was the first flight in my itinerary...
I've always wondered why they would ask, as if it would make a difference.. maybe there is a reason.

Red Roo?

 

[Danger]

I'd also be very surprised if this was the case.

 

[Danger]

I've just been told exactly the same thing in Sydney.

The lounge agent read me an email that was sent to them today saying that effecitve immediately they are not permitted to change the FF number after check-in. Apparently, some people have been "double dipping". How this can occur is something I'm not aware.

But it gets worse.

Say I check-in with my AA Platinum/oneworld Sapphire card, I can then not use my QF Platinum/oneworld Emerald to access a Business lounge, or any of the other benefits associated with my QF Platinum. That is a phenomenal change that makes me very angry.

 

[Danger]

EDIT: The lounge agent has advised that the email sent today relates to Emirates and alleged double dipping. The email relating to other programs was sent earlier this week. But the facts remain. No checking-in with one FF program and using the benefits of the other; no

This, I would suggest, has some pretty serious implications for some members here, particularly those who rely on their AA Executive Platinum status for lounge access etc. but fly under their lower QF FF membership (and vice versa).

 

[Mal]

Wow. One assumes that the "double dippers" would print off one BP with their details, then get number changed and new BP printed. Then submit first boarding pass to airline.

But again, the wrong approach has been taken. Why not crack down on those people rather than hurting the rest?

As for being denied lounge if you don't have the right number on your booking ... well that is a serious devaluation.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

big thumbs down

 

[equus]

As for being denied lounge if you don't have the right number on your booking ... well that is a serious devaluation.

It would indeed, but is this really what has been said? I can sort of understand the no changing FF number after checkin - that is only changing the timing slightly, as at the moment it is by default no changing after boarding.

The no change after first flight I can more understand, as timing of different systems talking and potentially checking could cause mistakes if different segments have different FF numbers, but only because the single field has been changed.

The Oneworld rules simply require you to be a member (and by inference prove it - which can be done by the booking have the number and showing status, or showing the card) but don't require you to have that FF number in the booking.

I don't think this approach would stop a serious double dipper who was relying on printed BPs, if the airlines continue to treat them as definitive. In this day of online checkin and self printed boarding passes, Acrobat or Photoshop make it pretty easy to "change" the number on the "boarding pass". More likely, the move is to remove reliance on such BPs entirely - and make it possible to check the electronic record at an time after the event to see what FF number was recorded. By not letting it change after the first segment, it will remove the need to rely on a BP to supposedly show which FF number was present at the time that segment was flown.

 

[samh004]

Say I check-in with my AA Platinum/oneworld Sapphire card, I can then not use my QF Platinum/oneworld Emerald to access a Business lounge, or any of the other benefits associated with my QF Platinum. That is a phenomenal change that makes me very angry.

I'm not sure that would be the case, more than likely for the double dipping they don't want to change numbers around, but I can't imagine they'd deny lounge entry if you have a card on you that proves you're entitled, but not crediting to it.

If that were the case, my dad wouldn't be able to access any domestic lounges as he credits cheap flights to Qantas, as they earn nothing with Cathay Pacific, where he's a Diamond member. His alternative would be to credit the flights to Cathay Pacific, earn nothing, but get to sit in the lounge... that doesn't seem right.

As for changing the numbers around, surely this can be done through Finair/RJ on your own, you don't need the lounge staff to help you there, just find a computer with internet connection.

 

[k3nnis]

Does this mean being a Marco Polo Gold and having QF NB on my boarding pass I can't access the QF Club lounge on domestic flights???

 

[Danger]

On the issue of flying under one program and using the benefits of another (such as for lounge access), it was explicitly explained to me that this is not allowed. By example, I told the agent that if I'd checked in with my AA number and then presented my QF card at the J lounge, I'd be allowed in. "No, no," she said. "You'd only have access to the Qantas Club".

 

[Kangol]

Had a flight today and did OLCI with my WP number. Went to the MEL J lounge and got told that they cannot change the FF number if I'm already checked in. This was due to "a directive that came yesterday" - consistent with the anecdotes from this thread.
I then asked if I could take the number out completely and have no FF number in the booking - I was thinking I could put in a manual points claim afterward. Again, no go.
I asked if it was an Amadeus issue and the lady didn't know. All they were told was they couldn't change FF numbers if you're already checked in.

I then walk out to the QP and ask the same thing, handed over both my QF and AA cards and it was changed over with no problem. The lady did ask me if I wanted it changed for the return leg (today was the first of a 2 segment itinerary). No questions asked. She thought I was arriving (I was actually about to leave) and told me to "show your WP card at the business lounge for access" - thinking I would be going straight to the J lounge.
Such inconsistency compared to the other reports here.

The itinerary is not showing in QF MMB and on checkmytrip it is only showing the AA number.

As for not being able to access lounges or utilise other benefits, that is absurd. AFAIK the terms and conditions do not say anything about needing the FF number in that same booking to receive the respective benefits.

As for double dipping, I thought that OW have systems in place that prevent that.. I have no idea about the EK system but if they don't "talk to each other" then that could be an issue.

Red Roo - this most certainly is a thread you should be replying to
Seriously, this "information" is denigrating the sanctity of QF and QFF :evil:
An expedited reply is most appreciated

Wouldn't want loyal QFF members showing their true loyAAlty.. oh, wait

 

[Danger]

The information I got was that the email had been sent to lounge staff. That may explain why utilising other ground staff make have been possible.

On the double dipping issue, my original thought was it relates to double dipping points. However, on further thought, I actually think it relates to double dipping of the other benefits, like lounge access and baggage allowances. I don't think it's particularly easy to double claim points, which makes me think it's targeted more at the status level benefits.

Regardless, it's very disappointing.

 

[Batesy]

Straight off the OW web page. No mention of needing a particular FF number in your booking or boarding pass.
Relax in more premium lounges around the world

If your oneworld® frequent flyer tier status is Emerald or Sapphire, or you are traveling in a First or Business Class cabin on any oneworld member airline, you can access some 550 airport lounges throughout the world.
This means you can relax or catch up with work in comfort and style before departure, regardless of which oneworld member airline you choose to fly with.

• To be eligible, you must be departing on a flight that is both marketed and operated by a oneworld member airline.
• Some lounges may get busy at peak times, and access to them may be restricted as a result.
• A non-affiliated third party may operate some lounges on behalf of the individual airline. Access to some lounges operated by third-parties on behalf of oneworld member airlines may be restricted at some times.
• Arrivals lounges are excluded.
• Spa and Pre-Flight Dining facilities are excluded.
• British Airways Concorde lounges are excluded.

oneworld lounge access for frequent flyers by tier status
Enjoy exclusive access to premium airport lounges around the world with oneworld Emerald or Sapphire frequent flyer tier status. Members of oneworld airline frequent flyer programmes with the equivalent of oneworld Emerald or Sapphire tier status can use any lounge offered by any oneworld airline when departing on any flight marketed and operated by any oneworld member airline, regardless of cabin class being flown.

• Emerald tier frequent flyers can use First Class, Business Class or frequent flyer lounges.
• Sapphire tier frequent flyers are welcome in Business Class* or frequent flyer lounges. (*does not include Qantas Domestic Business Lounges)
• Emerald and Sapphire members may invite one guest to join them in the lounge. The guest must also be travelling on a flight operated and marketed by a oneworld carrier.
• You must be prepared to show your boarding pass and frequent flyer membership card, with oneworld Emerald or Sapphire tier status, to access a lounge.

 

[Red Roo]

I'm currently investigating this issue and hope to have more information for you asap.

 

[Kangol]

On the double dipping issue, my original thought was it relates to double dipping points. However, on further thought, I actually think it relates to double dipping of the other benefits, like lounge access and baggage allowances. I don't think it's particularly easy to double claim points, which makes me think it's targeted more at the status level benefits.

Interesting, how would you double dip lounge access and baggage allowance?

For baggage, how would it happen - you go and check in your baggage for that flight. Then go to the lounge and change the FF number. Then go out of security, check in more baggage that someone else is guarding for you, under the same name for the same flight that they have a record of (but with another FF program number)?! Wouldn't they say "oh, you already have your maximum limit checked in" - or words to that effect?
I thought baggage allowances were not a OW benefit and any allowances are due to the respective airline offering the benefit on their own accord?

Double dipping lounge access is nothing more than printing multiple BPs with SG/WP/OWS/OWE and handing out to others... then again a lot of the time they don't scan the BP (in dom, that is). Not sure how changing FF numbers would help.

Maybe I'm not creative enough.

 

[ermen]

BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD.
I wonder if its a oneWorld thing or QFF thing.

Sounds like its just a push to grab more revenue and / or reduce costs for QFF

 

[simongr]

I guess this might only apply to the flights where you have checked in. In the OP's case I assume as they were checked in the restriction kicked in - however if between sectors they changed the info then it might not be an issue.

I can sort of see the logic around double dipping benefits - higher luggage allowance for QF WP flying QF but wanting to earn better points on AA. The thing is in theory you are entitled to double dip - the QF website doesn't say "50KG limit for QF WP when crediting to QFF" it says "50KG limit for WP when flying QF"

 

[drron]

Not going to affect me that much as when we travel internationally I travel on my AA number and mrsdrron on her QFF number.And when I am flying solo on QF airlines I am QP life and AA LTP so will still have my QP access whatever number I have in.But this is terrible and does seem to be a QFF rather than an OW thing.?the first shot in eventually leaving OW.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

What if the airline is not oneworld? (Or EK code share)

For example, I fly:
SYD-HKG QF on my QFF WP #
HKG-CDG AF on my FlyingBlue # (thanks QF no more code shares on AF)
CDG-HKG AF as above
HKG-SYD on QF again

I can't double dip, as QF doesn't earn on FlyingBlue and AF doesn't earn on QFF. There are no 'benefits' cross program.

I look forward to seeing the T&Cs that would prohibit this...