Can a card issuer reverse points already swept/credited to your QFF account?

[Doctore1003]

I’ve been asking myself whether a bank could ask Qantas (or other airline rewards scheme) to cancel points that have already been credited to your FF account if the bank subsequently decides the transactions were invalid (eg business transactions)? This was prompted by reading recent posts about an AFF member who had 800k reward points cancelled by ANZ because they were business transactions (but they had not yet been moved out of the ANZ reward account).

I thought the points would be “safe” once they were swept into your FF account but thought I’d check the terms and conditions of some of my cards. I was surprised to see these two statements in the Jetstar Platinum Mastercard T&Cs:

“We may… request Qantas to adjust the number of Qantas Points from your Qantas Frequent Flyer Account if Qantas Points have been incorrectly credited or debited for any reason (including where a Transaction is reversed).”

“We reserve the right to cause Qantas to reverse any crediting of Qantas Points to your Qantas Frequent Flyer Account if any Transaction is reversed and the number of Qantas Points that would otherwise have earned on your Account is subsequently reduced.”

None of my other cards had anything like this in the T&Cs.

I can’t see anything in the QFF program T&Cs that would permit a partner to have points credited to your account cancelled at their request. And why would Qantas care?

Does anyone have any insights into this??

 

[PLANT]

They control the game..... We do our best to get anything out of it....
Business activity is in t&c and we are lucky if we are not stopped from accruing points.... But simply the card holder has to leave and never return to such bank!

 

[Moopere]

Does anyone have any insights into this??

I don't, but like most here I'd have thought that instances of claw back would be pretty rare. I'm always looking for the tie-ins (or conflicts of interest) as close relationships, like JQ/QF might see some funny business in my view ... similarly to banks and their own rewards schemes. Usually the rewards schemes are separate business entities inside the bank, looks homogeneous to us from the outside but isn't necessarily so, yet, as we've heard and would naturally suspect, the relationship is close and not at all in the customers favour.

I'd have thought that in the main, particularly where there is an arms length relationship, FF schemes would be pretty careful of refunding points to institutions. I mean, after all, theres no direct business relationship which means the FF scheme is probably naturally closer to the customer than the institution ... but, more importantly, if I suffered a significant claw back and went into the red, for example, I'd just close my FF account ... where would that leave the FF scheme? I'd laugh at them if they tried to recover the points value as they are universally stated as having no monetary value.

 

[Doctore1003]

I don't, but like most here I'd have thought that instances of claw back would be pretty rare. I'm always looking for the tie-ins (or conflicts of interest) as close relationships, like JQ/QF might see some funny business in my view ... similarly to banks and their own rewards schemes. Usually the rewards schemes are separate business entities inside the bank, looks homogeneous to us from the outside but isn't necessarily so, yet, as we've heard and would naturally suspect, the relationship is close and not at all in the customers favour.

I'd have thought that in the main, particularly where there is an arms length relationship, FF schemes would be pretty careful of refunding points to institutions. I mean, after all, theres no direct business relationship which means the FF scheme is probably naturally closer to the customer than the institution ... but, more importantly, if I suffered a significant claw back and went into the red, for example, I'd just close my FF account ... where would that leave the FF scheme? I'd laugh at them if they tried to recover the points value as they are universally stated as having no monetary value.

Good points. Agree that perhaps the T&Cs of the Jetstar card are so explicit about possible claw-backs because Jetstar (ie Qantas) shares in the cost of those points.

 

[Dr Ralph]

Points can certainly be clawed back. It happened to me recently when points were mistakenly credited twice.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Points can certainly be clawed back. It happened to me recently when points were mistakenly credited twice.

I suspect there is a difference between when the bank ( or other organisation such as WOW recently) transfers the points directly (ie monthly transfer or transferring bonus points from online shopping etc), as opposed to when the cardholder does a manual transfer from their point stash. I stronglt suspect that when such auto-transfers are set up that it includes provision for clawbacks.

In my QFF account over the years with various cards their have been clawbacks from points awarded in error, or from purchase reversals.

I have had banks/ amex reverse points and my account has gone negative if I have not had a large enough balance. But the points were not recovered if I did not have later spend to earn more points.

For "manual" processes I think one would be generally be pretty safe.

 

[JohnK]

Am I wrong in assuming that a few years ago business earning was very tightly controlled with most credit cards.

The past few years has been lucrative for those with business spend. The pendulum appears to be swinging again as we can see for ATO spend.

Can they take points back? We have heard stories of frequent flyer accounts with negative balances so it is possible.