Australian living overseas. Is the grass greener?

[Sdtravel]

So i keep having these discussions with the folks that i should move overseas.
Places such as Singapore or Hong kong since the tax rates are so much better and there is great demand for Australian educated professionals especially in IT.
Once you are overseas you arent taxed on Australian income where as if you live in Australia you are taxed on any income world wide. I will be "living the good life". Take home page would be more since the tax rates are lower. So the same salary now would be more in my pocket if from somewhere like Hong Kong.
Since Asia is a good hub for business there would be heaps of opportunities to travel around and could easily visit places and jet back to Australia now and then.

Apparently the US is similar to Australia and tax you on any income you year world wide so dont become a US citizen for tax purposes.

Is the grass greener once outside Australia in terms of income and ease of employment or is this a relic from 30 years ago when places like Singapore and Asia were all the rage.
Id be interested to hear viewpoints and experiences from those who have lived or do live abroad.
Were any of these things motivations for moving.

 

[defurax]

Remember that in some jobs people will be expected to work seven days a week and never take vacations (or maybe 5 days a year)...so sometimes the grass is greener in Australia!

 

[Sdtravel]

Yeh, having travelled to HK a few times (as thats where the folks live) i am aware of the 5 working day + half day saturday working week.

 

[williamsf1]

I am currently living in Berlin as a self-employed contractor in the IT industry…. I mainly moved here for the lifestyle as I was over nanny state NSW . I do get paid a lot more here than in Australia, and also the cost of living is significantly lower, but the financial side was low in priority.

If someone is going to move overseas just for the money or financial status… they will probably be very unhappy and regret their decision long term

 

[Buzzard]

+1 and I met an expat that now lives in Serbia. Loves it. Only comes back to visit family.

 

[Ausbt]

I am currently living in Berlin as a self-employed contractor in the IT industry…. I mainly moved here for the lifestyle as I was over nanny state NSW

Interesting comment on the nanny state. Check out Ben Groundwater's (yeah ok, if you can stomach it) Flights of Fancy podcast - he covered this topic interviewing an ex-pat German & ex-pat South African. The German said "sure, less stupid laws in Germany but that's because your neighbour/strangers in the street are just as likely to police you". Cited an example of some random citizen stopping you from jaywalking! Ahhh ...think I prefer NSW. The South African suggested they were attracted to so-called 'nanny state' Oz because in SA - no one enforces the laws. They love law and order! Be interesting to have others comments on this.

In terms of tax rates, I also had a brief fling thinking of an o/s move. 15% non-resi tax rate in SG - yes, love it! 28% tax rate in the US and no standard deductable - ahhhh, don't love that so much (circa 23% average marginal in Oz last year). US very good though if you are on $400K + ...they really look after super-high salary earners over there quite well.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Currently living in Hong Kong. While the tax part is correct, it's a half truth. I would never move anywhere purely for tax benefits for many reasons. In Hong Kong for example while tax is lower, so is the air quality. Many other things cost more than you may be accustomed too like rent which is stupidly expensive (Sydney prices x2).

Other things cost more too, and while some jobs are in demand, you need to remember that local talent (ex-pats) are of high calibre so the completion is much stronger than in Australia.

Hong Kong for example, has free health care. Singapore does not. Hong Kong has poor credit card signup bonuses too... need to consider a balanced scorecard when consider moving.

 

[Sdtravel]

Yeh i get what you mean with that. Since land is an issue in HK rent is high and small.

 

[yohy?!]

It's true income tax is lower in HK, no GST either like Singapore. Higher rents and house prices more than make up the difference though, I consider it equal to living in Sydney and Melbourne.

The real benefit is being able to travel easily and cheaply all around Asia and ready access to China. Lots of opportunities for business and career advancement but the pace of work life is much faster than in Australia.

 

[williamsf1]

Interesting comment on the nanny state. Check out Ben Groundwater's (yeah ok, if you can stomach it) Flights of Fancy podcast - he covered this topic interviewing an ex-pat German & ex-pat South African. The German said "sure, less stupid laws in Germany but that's because your neighbour/strangers in the street are just as likely to police you". Cited an example of some random citizen stopping you from jaywalking! Ahhh ...think I prefer NSW. The South African suggested they were attracted to so-called 'nanny state' Oz because in SA - no one enforces the laws. They love law and order! Be interesting to have others comments on this.

nanny state is more around the lock out laws, police at dance and music festivals, drinking in public etc .... Also things like bike laws and bike useage... as for jaywalking. i would often see police in Sydney CBD booking people for crossing on the red, people here seemed more relaxed and less stressed and only the tourist seem to jaywalk here

 

[nickfromeastryde]

I am currently living in Berlin as a self-employed contractor in the IT industry…. I mainly moved here for the lifestyle as I was over nanny state NSW . I do get paid a lot more here than in Australia, and also the cost of living is significantly lower, but the financial side was low in priority.

If someone is going to move overseas just for the money or financial status… they will probably be very unhappy and regret their decision long term

Very surprised by your situation. Can fully understand the lifestyle comparisons but surprised by the pay side. Interviewed a couple of German contractors for a short term role here in Sydney recently, they were happy to accept considerably less than the Aust competition

 

[Deleted member]

There's living overseas, and then there's living and working overseas.
I am already living and working overseas (in Australia) I plan to live overseas later (not Australia) and have my eye on an area in France.

 

[dajop]

A quick summary, from someone based in Singapore for 8 years now:
- Tax much lower, although depending on where you choose to live, high rents can erode some of the savings in tax. Live outside a traditional expat area and the rents can be affordable, not that much more than an apartment in Sydney or Melbourne these days
- Car price out of the world. But unless working in a difficult to reach industrial area, or wanting to show off to your mates, can very easily live without a vehicle, due to excellent public transport and affordable taxi/uber/grab.
- If you have children of school age it's expensive. Very expensive, as you can't really send children to local schools. A deal breaker for some.
- Health care can be either expensive or inadequate. Look for that as part of employment package if possible.
- Food can be as cheap or as expensive as you desire, and everywhere in between. Groceries a little dearer but not so much. Alcohol a lot dearer, apart from DF at Changi, but only for spirits.
- Getting a job back in Australia can be difficult.
- If you still want to maintain a strong connection to Australia, it's easy and cheap to travel back frequently. We do. Most recent trip I paid $330 for return fare (MEL).
- Cheap to get to rest of Asia (except long weekends) and Europe is viable for shorter trips, being only 12-13 hrs flight, not a 21-24 hr odyssey.

Really it's what you make of it that counts.

 

[williamsf1]

Very surprised by your situation. Can fully understand the lifestyle comparisons but surprised by the pay side. Interviewed a couple of German contractors for a short term role here in Sydney recently, they were happy to accept considerably less than the Aust competition

I went from full time employee in Australia to a contractor here in a very specialised industry ... Probably once in a life time of work you get a offer like i did, I am probably a exception to the norm...

 

[Simo]

Currently living in Hong Kong. While the tax part is correct, it's a half truth. I would never move anywhere purely for tax benefits for many reasons. In Hong Kong for example while tax is lower, so is the air quality. Many other things cost more than you may be accustomed too like rent which is stupidly expensive (Sydney prices x2).

Other things cost more too, and while some jobs are in demand, you need to remember that local talent (ex-pats) are of high calibre so the completion is much stronger than in Australia.

Hong Kong for example, has free health care. Singapore does not. Hong Kong has poor credit card signup bonuses too... need to consider a balanced scorecard when consider moving.

You had another bonus for moving OS!!!!

 

[bam71]

So
Once you are overseas you arent taxed on Australian income where as if you live in Australia you are taxed on any income world wide.
Were any of these things motivations for moving.

I don't think that is correct. We moved to Abu Dhabi late 2015 on the proviso that we were departing AUS for good, thought our next move would then probably be Europe. Did all the necessary declarations etc. As it turns out, the other half got offered a job back here in Oz, and he wanted the role, so we moved back after 6 months. We haven't done our tax yet with that period where we lived in AUH. For tax purposes, we need to pay tax on our income earned in Abu Dhabi, UNLESS we can show intent that our return to Australia was not pre planned and we were going to cut all ties to Australia ( apart from having family etc). The tax office looks at this on a case by case basis.

 

[RoMambai]

I'm in Kabul at the moment and the place is the nearest thing to hell I've seen (and I've seen some pretty frisky places). Makes me appreciate home like nothing else. Give me nanny state and taxes any time....

 

[Sdtravel]

For tax purposes, we need to pay tax on our income earned in Abu Dhabi, UNLESS we can show intent that our return to Australia was not pre planned and we were going to cut all ties to Australia ( apart from having family etc). The tax office looks at this on a case by case basis.

Isn't that only now that you are back in Aus? If you were still living in Abu Dhabi all year round you wouldn't pay tax on non Australian income. Also comes down to where you spend the majority of the year. If you spend more than 6 months in Australia you are considered a resident for tax need to pay.

Say i moved to Asia and rented my place out in Aus. I would only pay local tax and tax on the income from the rental back in Aus.

 

[Buzzard]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned crime rates, safety of other country perceived or otherwise

 

[Sprucegoose]

There are many factors to take into account especially with children and spouses involved. Put it down on paper and critically analyze and discuss expectations before jumping in. You will never adequately plan in any case but it will get you brain thinking in the right quadrant.