Arrivals Cap still in place for Incoming flights up to end December

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I have been checking inward to Australia flights and due to arrivals cap no seats available from most countries.
Any idea when Airlines will start opening up there seat availabilty?
 
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Mattg

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I expect this will start happening once airlines have clarity about exactly what date the inbound arrival caps will be removed and what the rules will be around inbound travel.

So far, the only information airlines have had from the Australian government is an announcement of an announcement. The airlines have all been burned before, so they are probably unwilling to put more seats on sale until they know for sure they will be allowed to fill them.
 

henrus

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I can only imagine this will become a logistical nightmare. From what I've heard (and I could be wildly incorrect), those arriving who are vaccinated are not subject to hotel quarantine whilst those who are not vaccinated will still have to go through hotel quarantine.

Does this mean airlines will have to create two fare types, one with no cap for vaccinated travlers and another for vaccinated travelers with a cap per flight?
 

Telemachus

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Does this mean airlines will have to create two fare types, one with no cap for vaccinated travlers and another for vaccinated travelers with a cap per flight?
Agree! This is one of the mission-critical issues for those airlines which will not adopt a vaccination mandate for all pax. The industry put the issue on the table with government some time ago.

Knowing what the weekly new caps for the unvaccinated will be per airport is only the start of it. Airlines then have to know the cap for each flight in an evolving operating environment with more flights (we hope) being scheduled over time, with reducing caps per flight.

The industry has had no public answer to the question about how they are supposed to sell tickets when there is no mechanism to request and capture vax status at time of booking/purchase. So the risk is that as an unvaccinated prospective flyer you may get off-loaded if the cap is full for your flight. Without any modification to current booking systems airlines would find out vaccination status before check-in at the point when the pax submits an Australia Travel Declaration (which is at least 72 hrs pre-departure); and document verification then takes place at the airport. Like you, I suspect it's more complex than this: other AFF members with current industry knowledge may have additional or different insights into the nature of the problem and potential solutions.

It's tempting to say it would be simpler, and reassuring for vaccinated passengers, if all airlines operating into Australia imposed a mandate requiring proof of vaccination or exemption for a valid medical reason.
 

henrus

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Australia Travel Declaration (which is at least 72 hrs pre-departure)
Something like this will probably be the key. I guess similar to NZ where a "voucher" is required for uplift and all seats can be sold meaning airlines no longer have control over capacity.

I guess the flaw in this is the individual states and the way they manage their own systems (which is always going to be a problem). The HQ system is shrouded in unnecessary secrecy and as a result the public has no idea what's going on plus the airlines don't want to publicly discuss their allocations leading me to believe that tense negotiations are occurring behind the scenes.

For example QLD apparently has "burst days" where the cap can expand beyond the weekly cap however what isn't clear is how this burst allocation works and to which airlines it's allocated to.
 

Telemachus

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While most reactions to today's NSW announcement are happening on another thread this seems the most appropriate place to comment on what is happening to the arrivals cap for unvaccinated pax. NSW govt has said it will be 210 per week (for SYD/NSW) wef 1 Nov and the Guardian today quotes Barry Abrams (BARA) as follows:
'He told Guardian Australia that airlines were discussing coordinating with the government for one charter flight per week just to carry the entire 210 unvaccinated passengers under that week’s cap'.

This seems to me a pragmatic proposal that will remove the potential problem of 'mixed' flights with inflight risks of transmission; it entirely resolves the challenge of distributing the capped places between airlines and multiple inbound flights; and the issue discussed in this thread of how to manage ticket sales will not arise at all. Unwelcome news, though, for people who have not had access overseas to a vaccine that is either TGA-approved or recognised for the purpose of international travel.

Looking further ahead at the point when non-citizens are allowed entry to Australia (Phase D of the National Plan), the matter of unvaccinated pax will return and need a more enduring solution.
 
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dajop

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Looking further ahead at the point when non-citizens are allowed entry to Australia (Phase D of the National Plan), the matter of unvaccinated pax will return and need a more enduring solutiion.

Facilities under construction in several states that will help once they are built?
 

Telemachus

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Facilities under construction in several states that will help once they are built?
Yes that is part of it in terms of post-arrival management. Despite all the criticism of the current construction of quarantine-specific facilities I see them as prudent provision for the medium as well as long term - albeit they should have been commissioned urgently 18 mths ago. Hotel quarantine has always been a short-term far from ideal emergency measure.

But actually I was thinking more about how the airlines are to manage unjabbed passengers for the 'complete journey' from booking to disembarkation when something like normal operations are on the horizon. The National Plan, fwiw, says 'measures may include...quarantine for high-risk inbound travel' in Phase D. Never say never but Phase D (fully open international borders with non-citizens allowed) still seems some months off, so it should not require a just in time solution. I don't know what those measures should be. A lot depends on whether 'high risk' (deserving of quarantine) will be about ports of departure (applying to whole flight) or vax status and recent travel history of each pax (harder to address).
 
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Franky

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Yes that is part of it in terms of post-arrival management. Despite all the criticism of the current construction of quarantine-specific facilities I see them as prudent provision for the medium as well as long term - albeit they should have been commisioned urgently 18 mths ago. Hotel quarantine has always been a short-term far from ideal emergency measure.

But actually I was thinking more about how the airlines are to manage unjabbed passengers for the 'complete journey' from booking to disembarkation when something like normal operations are on the horizon. The National Plan, fwiw, says 'measures may include...quarantine for high-risk inbound travel' in Phase D. Never say never but Phase D (fully open international borders with non-citizens allowed) still seems some months off, so it should not require a just in time solution. I don't know what those measures should be. A lot depends on whether 'high risk' (deserving of quarantine) will be about ports of departure (applying to whole flight) or vax status and recent travel history of each pax (harder to address).
Agree with you, though I am glad they did not 'urgently' build anything 18 months ago - this always leads to wrong place, botched job, dodgy contracts, vast cost over-runs - you know how it goes...
 

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