Are we impatient and do we need to calm down…!

[Andz]

My recently trip to South Africa made me think about what we expected as passengers. I must confess I had an awesome trip and I had no issues. On my own with no kids was very nice and I used points to fly comfortably. I used QFF point on EK metal to Cape Town and QF economy, through Sydney, on the return.

My first flight was when I was 12 years and the family had to save for years. Then, we expected expensive tickets, we expected the danger in flying, we expected coughpy food, we expected to be queued, we expected to be delayed, we expected to get no sleep and we expected to be grumpy but polite.

Now kids are flying at birth (not literary) and tickets are cheap. People expect 1st class food and service in economy, people expect no delays, people expect to survive the flight (), people expect others to accept your grumpiness and unacceptable demands.

Have we became rude and impatient….?

 

[RooFlyer]

People expect 1st class food and service in economy, people expect no delays, people expect to survive the flight (), people expect others to accept your grumpiness and unacceptable demands.

i dunno. Do people in economy expect 1st class food? Do they expect no delays? On the contrary, I think the expectation in economy will be anything but first class catering, and irrespective of class of flying, they expect that there will be a delay somewhere. i know every time I fly long haul I put in a big buffer between flights if there is something time-important at the other end.

But yes, people do tend to expect the survive the flight.

Dunno also about the assumption of grumpiness and unacceptable demands ...

 

[Hvr]

People are becoming more self centred and intolerant of others. I work in a customer facing role and frankly some people are incredibly selfish. I can literally be serving another person and they will demand I stop and serve them immediately despite the fact that there are others before them.

Those of us who fly like many of us here do lead what would be considered extremely privileged lives compared to many people including the once in a lifetime flyer. I would hope that we set the standard in demonstrating exemplary behaviour but some of the worst behaviour on planes is from passengers who know what is happening and what are reasonable expectations and what are simply outrageous demands because they have a shiny card.

Stuff happens and we need to learn to roll with it and often look after ourselves.

Remember if you're having a discussion about something that's gone wrong and you're right you don't need to shout. Quiet and reasonable will win out over loud and abusive virtually all the time and will be noted regardless of how you behave and the initial outcome you get.

 

[Denali]

Maybe its because in the old days, you "flew home" to see family (ie new aussies go back to the old country) so they rarely had ongoing flights or tours to worry about. They would go to [country] and visit family and friends so a delay didnt bother too many as they were just glad to have made it (considering the trip to Australia was 6 weeks on a boat for most).

Now its about making your ongoing flight, cruise, tour ect - which is why I try to have a quite day after arriving/arrive a day earlier for just in case.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

My first flight was when I was 12 years and the family had to save for years. Then, we expected expensive tickets, we expected the danger in flying, we expected coughpy food, we expected to be queued, we expected to be delayed, we expected to get no sleep and we expected to be grumpy but polite.

Now kids are flying at birth (not literary) and tickets are cheap. People expect 1st class food and service in economy, people expect no delays, people expect to survive the flight (), people expect others to accept your grumpiness and unacceptable demands.

Have we became rude and impatient….?

Perhaps you were 12 very recently?

30 years ago we didn't actually know how good we had it. 34 inch pitch in economy, pretty good food including whole steaks and other cuts of meat (almost unheard of today), not uncommon to have lightly loaded planes where you could stretch out with one or more extra seats, airports that were compact and you were through within a few minutes from check-in to gate, higher ratio of cabin crew to passengers meaning good service, no real problems (that I can recall) with the service of alcohol. Airport staff that were not as busy and had more time for passengers, and bags that came out fairly quickly. Some airlines provided gifts to passengers (SQ being the notable one). Bags that were through checked to your destination. And if you were delayed you were looked after with hotels or put on another carrier. Almost everyone was treated equally.

The IFE might not have been as good (central movie projector), but there was a certain atmosphere that came along with that.

Are people impatient today? Perhaps, but what do you expect when there are long queues for check-in, packed flights, contracts that are well and truly skewed in favour of the carrier, minimal crew, and all care and attention given to those with status even though they may be paying less that you are. If you don't have status these days, every single step of your journey is geared against you... long queues, pay for seat selection, no spare seats beside you, long waits to get through to a call centre if you need assistance, first to be bumped, pay for bags, last to be given assistance on the ground, can't get access to frequent flyer seats.

I think on the whole economy pax these days do pretty well in terms of being calm and accepting of what they end up being given by many airlines.

 

[JohnK]

Someone using ATM and I'm waiting. Her friend comes over with card in front of me. When her friend finished she motioned to me if I was next and can she go next. She didn't speak, just motioned. I said yes I'm next.

They walked off and the second lady was somewhat upset. Get stuffed if you think you're going to cut in. If she'd asked nicely I may have let her go before me.

 

[TonyHancock]

People are becoming more self centred and intolerant of others. I work in a customer facing role and frankly some people are incredibly selfish. I can literally be serving another person and they will demand I stop and serve them immediately despite the fact that there are others before them.

How dare you, you need to stop posting generalisms and focus on me.

 

[Happy Trails]

Yes.

At a SYD T1 newsagent I got stuck behind an old guy seeming to take forever to complete his transaction, while I just wanted to pay for my comic and get to the F lounge.

Even as the steam was coming out of my ears, it gradually dawned on me that English wasn’t his first language and the young lady on the till was taking great pains to explain how to activate a new SIM card.

When it did come to my turn I happened to mention that I’d initially been impatient with the previous customer, but that I was very impressed with her patience and solicitude toward him.

A simple pleasantry, but she beamed and said it made her day.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I can't speak about the flying experience when I was 12, as we didn't fly. I thought it was magic when the family holiday went from a tent to a caravan ... and I was lucky that dad was a teacher. Many of my school mates never even got a holiday as their father (generally the primary bread winner) was working! People sometimes need a reality check. I take a great deal of pleasure in seeing the look of joy on the faces of friends here in PNG, as they work and can now afford to have an excruciating painful tooth attended to by a dentist, which is simply wonderful for them, rather than having a wantok knock it out with a screwdriver and rock!

However, when I pay for a service that is advertised and it doesn't happen, I'll still complain about it! That's my right as a DYKWIA!

 

[Forg]

30 years ago we didn't actually know how good we had it. 34 inch pitch in economy, pretty good food including whole steaks and other cuts of meat (almost unheard of today), not uncommon to have lightly loaded planes where you could stretch out with one or more extra seats, airports that were compact and you were through within a few minutes from check-in to gate, higher ratio of cabin crew to passengers meaning good service, no real problems (that I can recall) with the service of alcohol. Airport staff that were not as busy and had more time for passengers, and bags that came out fairly quickly. Some airlines provided gifts to passengers (SQ being the notable one). Bags that were through checked to your destination. And if you were delayed you were looked after with hotels or put on another carrier. Almost everyone was treated equally.

The IFE might not have been as good (central movie projector), but there was a certain atmosphere that came along with that.

Interesting that you say this about 30yrs ago as a frequent traveller; as an infrequent traveller, my first long-haul flight (7wk trip to Europe in slightly-more-than-backpacker-cost style with 2 uni mates) 20 years ago was awful compared to recent trips. The seat pitch may have been bigger than now, but there seems more room now; the TV-in-the-roof IFE was near useless & awful (a fairly big thing for us non-sleepers I’ve decided); economy food was truly terrible & I guess the difference now is there’s a bit less of that terrible food. Cabin pressures & noise are noticeably better in something more modern than the 747’s we were in.
Stuff that you’ve mentioned bothering a frequent traveller (travelling four hours through airports) didn’t bother me at the time, but thinking about it the hike through Changi wasn’t too bad but Frankfurt was like a half-hour tramp through a mouse maze!

So from my perspective & reading what you’ve written, it seems things slid massively backwards from circa 1990 to circa 2000?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I probably should have said 40 years ago!

But I think there was a quantum change in economy service, with new seating coming in for all classes equipped with IFE, and then they started putting the rows closer together.

 

[Renato1]

Back in late 1974 we flew Melbourne to Rome, stopping at Bangkok and Athens with Singapore airlines in a 747 in Economy.

We had some seven or eight substantial meals during the flight - the food never seemed to stop coming. And the drinks were free and continuous.

I accumulated six decks of free playing cards, which they kept handing out. We were in the Smoking section, where they kept handing out free packets of five cigarettes. There was a wall at the back of the plane, behind which was a big toilet and washing area with basins, where one could use the electric shavers provided for a quick trim.

And every now and then they'd bring the big screens down, and all the cabin would enjoy watching the same movie together.

And we had a very similar experience flying back home, using Qantas some months later in 1975. Plus all the flights seemed to be only two thirds full, leaving plenty of scope to lie across the seats. Also we had great fun wandering out of the planes to stretch our legs (leaving our bags in the planes) and checking out the duty free items in exotic airports like Bangkok and Bahrain - where the prices were so cheap that I actually bought something - an amazing Sanyo scientific electronic calculator.

That was luxury Economy flying.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Forg]

I guess it makes sense that when tickets were, what, 10-20 times more exxy than now, there would have been a lot fewer people flying.
As a non-frequent flyer (maybe average 1 flight every 2 years), I’ve never seen a non-full international flight!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I guess it makes sense that when tickets were, what, 10-20 times more exxy than now, there would have been a lot fewer people flying.
As a non-frequent flyer (maybe average 1 flight every 2 years), I’ve never seen a non-full international flight!

Interesting question... I don't know if tickets were 10-20 times more expensive in real terms? Back in 1988 I paid $2200 for a business class return to Europe. In 2002 I paid $4300 (BA - new full flat beds). In 2004 I paid around $5000 for a TG F ticket from MEL->LHR.

 

[TonyHancock]

People are becoming more self centred and intolerant of others. I work in a customer facing role and frankly some people are incredibly selfish. I can literally be serving another person and they will demand I stop and serve them immediately despite the fact that there are others before them.

Whilst I posted rather flippantly before I could not agree more. I frequently find myself sitting at the bar in the CCR LHR and the way many pax talk to the wonderful bar staff absolutely appals me. I was brought up to say please and thank you and wait my turn, so to see the abject rudeness so frequently really does annoy me....I find myself finishing requests with please in a rather sarcastic tone.*



*Oh God Griselda has my account again

 

[Forg]

Interesting question... I don't know if tickets were 10-20 times more expensive in real terms? Back in 1988 I paid $2200 for a business class return to Europe. In 2002 I paid $4300 (BA - new full flat beds). In 2004 I paid around $5000 for a TG F ticket from MEL->LHR.

I wonder if you’re managing some pretty hefty discounts that mere mortals can’t manage? In 2008 the cheapest I could find for a return J trip SYD-BRU was ~$7k, and that was part-way in what are now PE seats.

My uncle took me & my cousins up into the flight-deck of a QF 747-400 probably only a year or so after QF got them, and while I don’t recall the other numbers, I do remember F being $12k RRP return SYD-LHR. If Google isn’t lying, that would have been about 1990.

Was talking with a workmate, his mother spent half a year’s wages on a return ticket to SYD from AKL in the late 60’s. I mean, that’s maybe 2/3 of a week on minimum legal wages now!

 

[JohnK]

Still not sure.

At Bankstown Golf Club last Sunday morning the first group finished in just under 4 hours. The 2nd group took 5h5m including the president and of course groups 3 through 7 also took 5h5m to complete their rounds. I was in last group and 5h in that heat was torture.

Not impatient but slow play needs to be treated seriously. The president doesn't think we have an issue. He has advised me if I want a faster game to go and play somewhere else. I've been a member for 27 years and ran the social club for 15 years.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I wonder if you’re managing some pretty hefty discounts that mere mortals can’t manage? In 2008 the cheapest I could find for a return J trip SYD-BRU was ~$7k, and that was part-way in what are now PE seats.

My uncle took me & my cousins up into the flight-deck of a QF 747-400 probably only a year or so after QF got them, and while I don’t recall the other numbers, I do remember F being $12k RRP return SYD-LHR. If Google isn’t lying, that would have been about 1990.

Was talking with a workmate, his mother spent half a year’s wages on a return ticket to SYD from AKL in the late 60’s. I mean, that’s maybe 2/3 of a week on minimum legal wages now!

There was a big change in the affordability of airfares between the 60's and the introduction of the 747 and other wide-bodies in the 1970s. The latter had 3 or 4x the space to fill, and fares began to come down (with the introduction of 'excursuion' and other 'tourist' fares).

Discouting has always been around, back in the 90s travel agents used to work with big books of published (printed) fares which included details of the agent's commission, and the agent was free to subtract the commission and sell for whatever mark-up they wanted. Some F fares were offering 20-30% commission.

The $12K for 1990 probably sounds in the ball park. I know LH was offering F at the time for around $10K, which could be heavily discounted by agents.

These days there's less discounting available by agents because airlines have cut commissions to the bone.

The fares I mentioned above were all freely available. The ~$4300 was offered by BA for a few years departing Australia just after Christmans/New Year when premium loads were low. The return was available for up to one year later. Garuda's standard fare in the late 90s was around the $2800 level IIRC. AU-Bali, choice of whether you wanted to stop in Bali or not for a few days, then on to Bangkok and Amsterdam or London. GA had just removed First class as a product, so used the 18 full sleeper seats in the nose of the 747-400 for business class. At the time, only BA's full flat seats were a better business class offering (GA continued to use this configuration for many years making it great value). The actual business cabin on the lower and upper decks was sold as PEY.

By 2008 I'd probably be thinking that $7K for business class to Europe would have been on the expensive side! Although perhaps comlicated by the need to go to BRU. But by then I was well and truly using miles for most long hauls.

 

[Franky]

Still not sure.

At Bankstown Golf Club last Sunday morning the first group finished in just under 4 hours. The 2nd group took 5h5m including the president and of course groups 3 through 7 also took 5h5m to complete their rounds. I was in last group and 5h in that heat was torture.

Not impatient but slow play needs to be treated seriously. The president doesn't think we have an issue. He has advised me if I want a faster game to go and play somewhere else. I've been a member for 27 years and ran the social club for 15 years.

I feel your pain John. My Saturday morning group thankfully have the first tee-off slot, and we have 4 groups each day. We play Ready Golf - play if your'e ready, don't worry about who has the honour. When we move from green to tee, it's hit first and mark your card after. Same can't be said in my Wednesday group, we try to hit off around 0700, but there just seems to be no comprehension by most others of how to play at a reasonable rate - no-one wants to rush a game, but there are too many who have the whole golf course stacked up behind them and don't seem to know or care.