Predictions of when international flights may resume/bans lifted

[tallboy]

In addition to the problems with those that don't live within two hours of an INT airport, I just can't see how home quarantine for the masses is viable when it isn't working now. Several breaches in Tasmania, together with the consistently high numbers in the community whilst infectious in VIC, ACT and NSW, suggests that people just will not stay at home, especially if they aren't symptomatic. There's a lot to be ironed out.

Agreed, we need more details on how HomeQ will work.
However, we currently trust unvaccinated people who have tested positive to COVID to isolate at home, so it seems rather illogical to require fully vaccinated travellers who have returned from low-risk locations and tested negative to undergo HotelQ.

 

[drron]

However the TGA does agree with me that not all of the WHO approved vaccines are good enough to be recognized here.

No they say there is not enough evidence to make a decision.Not the same as not good enough.

 

[jakeseven7]

I wonder how long until Qantas Labs pops up? How many points per $$ will we earn for getting a COVID test? Any bonus points on offer?

If covid tests were a status run let’s just say I’d be a ‘Friend of Qantas / P1’ tier by now thanks to Qantas Labs

 

[Jenya]

We should be considering all vaccines, but if there isn't enough evidence that the vaccine works at the levels we desire - then don't recognise it. Very simple

Unfortunately it is not that simple.
There is more politics behind vaccines then science.
I am not sure about Chinese stuff but no way we should recognize Sputnik.
From the scratch it was developed as Kremlin's influence tool rather then to help protect citizens health. Human life costs nothing there. And then pushed to proclaim as "worlds first vaccine" at any cost.
Its not scientists who had final say on anything there, and Russians themselves know it very well - just have a look at vaccination rates at 29% now, factor in much earlier start of mass vaccination then in Australia. And even this was only achieved by mandating vaccination for huge government sector and most of private. All covid statistics there heavily manipulated same as election results.
Another thing - not a single western vaccine was recognized in Russia and never will be.

I suspect same story about China.

 

[dajop]

Unfortunately it is not that simple.
There is more politics behind vaccines then science.
I am not sure about Chinese stuff but no way we should recognize Sputnik.
From the scratch it was developed as Kremlin's influence tool rather then to help protect citizens health. Human life costs nothing there. And then pushed to proclaim as "worlds first vaccine" at any cost.
Its not scientists who had final say on anything there, and Russians themselves know it very well - just have a look at vaccination rates at 29% now, factor in much earlier start of mass vaccination then in Australia. And even this was only achieved by mandating vaccination for huge government sector and most of private. All covid statistics there heavily manipulated same as election results.
Another thing - not a single western vaccine was recognized in Russia and never will be.

I suspect same story about China.

All very well to bring politics to the table, but if it works, and is proven by independent third party studies (eg like the Sinovac Brazilian study), why should we treat people, including Australians, vaccinated abroad with such vaccines differently because of the politics behind it? We're not talking about adopting it for vaccinating people within Australia - just recognising it for someone vaccinated abroad.

I've got a feeling vaccination fraud will be a bigger issue than travelling having been vaccinated with soemthing TGA has reviewed for efficacy and then recognised. Heck, I live overseas normally but currently in Australia, I just went to the nearest pharmac_, showed them my vaccinationrecord printout, and it was added to my Individual Health Identifier Record. Very simple (although getting the IHI record was not - but that's another story). I could have taken my about 30 mins to build such a document from scratch using Word and printing it, and no one entering the data would be able to tell any different. This will be the weakpoint - where the data goes from a foreign printed record to a digitised record. For some countries they will work it out, but not for all.

 

[Telemachus]

...which is terrific for dual citizens who are currently in the country, but is yet another example of the Catch 22 I referred to previously for poor old Seat Son.

He's a dual Australian/US citizen, who lives in Dubai on his US passport (better visa conditions) and was vaccinated there with Indian made AZ. How does the system work for him if he ever manages to get home to Australia - where he will have to use his Australian passport?

I'm not having a go at you @Telemachus - your posts are always very informative. It's just that yet again the overseas Aussie is regarded as a second or even third class citizen - or maybe not even as a citizen at all.

I sense your justified exasperation but it’s clearly directed elsewhere. That page on the Services Australia website about how to get a foreign jab onto the AIR is an absolute shocker (‘We can only accept information directly from a recognised vaccination provider in Australia’).

Seat Son may not yet have an AIR entry but at check-in for a flight home to Australia, he can present a certificate for the Indian AZ i.e. Covishield, which is now one of 2 vaccines ‘recognised for international travel purposes’ by Australia - along with the 4 TGA-approved ones.

I think in practice the process for proof of vaccination on initial return of a citizen/PR to Australia is going to be OK though it may all take longer than we are used to at check-in and potentially on arrival. It’s axiomatic that a large portion of arrivals until (say) Jan-Feb will have been vaccinated overseas so won’t have AIR entries or Australian certificates (digital or paper). Foreign certificates will therefore be presented and accepted. If other countries can manage this....

Another gem from that Senate evidence was recognition of the importance of communication to the public of what people need to do in order to venture out into the brave new world of digital international travel credentials. You just know this is going to be communicated with the same consummate skill we have seen over the last 18 months.

 

[antycbr]

Another gem from that Senate evidence was recognition of the importance of communication to the public of what people need to do in order to venture out into the brave new world of digital international travel credentials. You just know this is going to be communicated with the same consummate skill we have seen over the last 18 months.

Perhaps we can retool the Covidsafe app? The best way would be for us to just adopt whatever the ICAO and IATA come up with. Stop trying to roll our own...

 

[Ric]

Unfortunately it is not that simple.
There is more politics behind vaccines then science.
I am not sure about Chinese stuff but no way we should recognize Sputnik.
From the scratch it was developed as Kremlin's influence tool rather then to help protect citizens health. Human life costs nothing there. And then pushed to proclaim as "worlds first vaccine" at any cost.
Its not scientists who had final say on anything there, and Russians themselves know it very well - just have a look at vaccination rates at 29% now, factor in much earlier start of mass vaccination then in Australia. And even this was only achieved by mandating vaccination for huge government sector and most of private. All covid statistics there heavily manipulated same as election results.
Another thing - not a single western vaccine was recognized in Russia and never will be.

I suspect same story about China.

I wonder why then UNICEF would sign a supply agreement for Sinovac.
There will be a lot of people not be able to travel with Sinovac vaccinations.

 

[Telemachus]

However, we currently trust unvaccinated people who have tested positive to COVID to isolate at home, so it seems rather illogical to require fully vaccinated travellers who have returned from low-risk locations and tested negative to undergo HotelQ.

You are being so unreasonable in demanding consistency and proportionality in the way comparable risks are managed. We have gone through 18 months in which some risk treatments have been demonstrably excessive or illogical, where less extreme options could have achieved an appropriate outcome without the negative consequences that have fallen on particular groups or people in particular circumstances. But a large proportion of the population doesn't see it that way since risk literacy is so poor.

The political optics of reopening international travel mean there can't be a sudden and complete 'dismount'. Realistically there has to be a staged process though one hopes those stages can be moved through rapidly as and when decision-makers believe they can take the public with them in (shock, horror) accepting a degree of residual risk. In the meantime we must, I suppose, continue suspending disbelief in order to contain our frustration.

Overseas practice will help. For example Ireland has now dropped hotel quarantine for all arrivals and people instead go into a form of home quarantine that is described as self-isolation and seems to lack the intrusive compliance features of the Australian trial models. The Irish CMO's rationale included this according to RTE: 'It is understood that the dominance of the Delta variant in Ireland and elsewhere meant there were no remaining variants of concern that could be stopped from taking hold by requesting travellers to quarantine in hotels'.

 

[hb13]

Personally I think it is pathetic that the government continues to say travel will be possible from next month with absolutely no detail.

We have been told there will be home quarantine if the quarantine trials in SA and NSW (which has only just begun) are successful, but literally nothing else.

There are so many issues to deal with and most of which is if and how Aussies residing overseas can actually travel to Australia, particularly as I assume the vast majority of us have no homes in Australia.

The hope that come Xmas I can see my family in Oz is once again rapidly fading. All I can say is that this period is one of real shame for Australia and there is no clear evidence that it is ending soon.

 

[justinbrett]

Personally I think it is pathetic that the government continues to say travel will be possible from next month with absolutely no detail.

So you'd prefer they delay it for another 3 months while they flesh out the detail?

I, for one, am quite satisfied with them giving us the broad brush detail now and flesh out the specifics as we get closer. The sooner the better. The trial (actually referred to as a pilot in NSW) isn't a matter of pass/fail - it's working out what procedures and tech they need in place to manage it.

PM and state Premier statements and Qantas selling tickets is enough evidence for me.

 

[zenyattamondatta]

the Australian government (...)

Frankly pathetic and criminal.

this is nothing short of scandalous and pathetic from a guy who unfortunately has too much influence today

I think this is pathetic from Brendan Murphy

The Victorian government has struggled more than anyone with their pathetic management of hotel quarantine

Shortly after the Victorian government recovered from their pathetic handling of this

This government really needs to open its eyes to the mental suffering of so many of us separated from family. It's just pathetic.

those of us living in Australia/UK continue to suffer, even if we are fully jabbed while the rest of the world moves on. It's pathetic.

Frankly pathetic

It's a joke and frankly pathetic from the Morrison government.

I think it is pathetic that the government

Just reading between the lines, I'm sensing that you see a certain degree of pathos in the way government officials have handled the pandemic?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Personally I think it is pathetic that the government continues to say travel will be possible from next month with absolutely no detail.

We have been told there will be home quarantine if the quarantine trials in SA and NSW (which has only just begun) are successful, but literally nothing else.

There are so many issues to deal with and most of which is if and how Aussies residing overseas can actually travel to Australia, particularly as I assume the vast majority of us have no homes in Australia.

The hope that come Xmas I can see my family in Oz is once again rapidly fading. All I can say is that this period is one of real shame for Australia and there is no clear evidence that it is ending soon.

Unfortunately your chances will be rapidly fading unless you make a booking. I'd get the seat home first, worry about actually taking the flight and details of home Q later. It will get sorted out, the government isn't likely to suffer another Christmas without Aussies being home.

 

[dajop]

Personally I think it is pathetic that the government continues to say travel will be possible from next month with absolutely no detail.

I'm a bit surprised, It's very out of character for the government to make announcements with absolutely no detail.

I'd be more concerned if there were only half a dozen or so cases of COVID across the country. but with the thousands of active cases in NSW and Vic I'm much more confident the borders to the SE corner will open up, in a controlled fashion, quite soon.

But in the meantime, you could pretend to be a family member of the English Cricket team, and get the god treatment , where even families of team members don't have to do "hard hotel quarantine" . The disgusting sh#*(t continues - one rule for the gods of our society and their families and another for the rest of us.

Country Victoria key to the Ashes: Resort offered to England team families

Country Victoria will play a critical role in the Ashes, as the quarantine haven for partners and families of the England men’s team.

www.theage.com.au

"This accommodation will afford movement around the compound and access to a swimming pool and gym, as distinct from the two weeks’ hard hotel room quarantine that England’s players were so desperate to avoid - both for themselves and their families"

 

[dajop]

Unfortunately your chances will be rapidly fading unless you make a booking. I'd get the seat home first, worry about actually taking the flight and details of home Q later. It will get sorted out, the government isn't likely to suffer another Christmas without Aussies being home.

Disagree. Qantas is effectively the only one selling flights into Australia. If homeQ is not going ahead, those flights will be cancelled. But if homeQ is going ahead as indicated, then the foreign carriers currently flying near empty planes into Australia will open their inventories once clarity is provided to them and seats will be available much more readily than they are now, and probably at lower cost than Q.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Disagree. Qantas is effectively the only one selling flights into Australia. If homeQ is not going ahead, those flights will be cancelled. But if homeQ is going ahead as indicated, then the foreign carriers currently flying near empty planes into Australia will open their inventories once clarity is provided to them and seats will be available much more readily than they are now, and probably at lower cost than Q.

For sure. But if home Q is not going ahead, or doesn't roll out as planned, there will be limited seats. I'd be snapping those up now if coming home for Christmas was really on the agenda.

 

[dajop]

For sure. But if home Q is not going ahead, or doesn't roll out as planned, there will be limited seats. I'd be snapping those up now if coming home for Christmas was really on the agenda.

Yes but on other (non-QF) carriers those seats are long since gone. Way too late for that. On QF, may also be too late .. depending on who they bump if they have restricted capacity (if those extra flights go ahead with very restricted capacity so far, something QF has not been willing to do thus far)

 

[antycbr]

Disagree. Qantas is effectively the only one selling flights into Australia. If homeQ is not going ahead, those flights will be cancelled. But if homeQ is going ahead as indicated, then the foreign carriers currently flying near empty planes into Australia will open their inventories once clarity is provided to them and seats will be available much more readily than they are now, and probably at lower cost than Q.

I have confidence as Dom doesn’t believe in quarantine anyway, he said it’s stupid when you have endemic covid… ^#

^ opinion valid in NSW only
# other states consult their state premier for further information

 

[justinbrett]

Disagree. Qantas is effectively the only one selling flights into Australia. If homeQ is not going ahead, those flights will be cancelled. But if homeQ is going ahead as indicated, then the foreign carriers currently flying near empty planes into Australia will open their inventories once clarity is provided to them and seats will be available much more readily than they are now, and probably at lower cost than Q.

Qantas, plus:
-Hawaiian
-Air Canada
-Fiji Airways
-Air New Zealand
-JAL
-Etihad
-SirLankan

As of today, seats available in mid December from either Europe or North America destinations. I gave up searching after that, there could be more.

 

[OATEK]

While the Feds have quarantine powers, it is the states who will decide whether 14 (as they currently do), or 7 or whatever. As others have said, there are a lot of strings to pull together, and some will commit regardless given that they are determined to travel asap.