New Virgin Australia fare categories

[eastwest101]

Some interesting discussions about these new fare categories and their inclusions and lack of.

Are we mostly agreeing that the Lite fare category is so that VA appears close to or maybe even cheaper than Jetstar/Rex on flight aggregator sites such as Google flights/WebjetBooking.com/Expedia/Kyak etc?

That particular example of the CBR-BNE economy fares in the first post go me thinking about what a theoretical passenger has lost by choosing a Lite fare rather than the Choice fare. So what has the customer "lost" to keep the $20 in their own pocket?

• 100 Velocity points = at a value of 1c per VFF point it isn't much so $1 ? Pretty much the most trivial difference.
• 10 extra Velocity Status credits = quite a big gap between SC earn on Lite fares cf Choice fares and an obvious dis-incentive to existing higher tier Velocity status members to pick a Lite fare
• Seat Selection = $10 value easy to quantify as that's the seat selection fee for a Lite fare
• Checked Luggage = difficult to quantify without specific example but previous excess fees were in the range of $40-$50?
• Points Upgrade to J class with Velocity Points = intangible variable value but given the reported high frequency of success upgrading even from some of the lower old fare classes in the past this might be a difference.

Seems they have pitched the Lite fares to those totally disengaged with Velocity or status, and who would only care about the price. These would be leisure travelers, but the one thing that leisure travelers do often have is checked-in luggage? Seems a little peculiar unless they are expecting a sudden last-minute ancillary revenue stream from leisure travelers silly enough to book a Lite fare and then having to pay for extra baggage during booking (= drip pricing) or at the airport...

I think the price difference between the Lite fares and Choice fares is going to be where the rubber really hits the road for people's choices and the uptake of these two different fare categories and of course where they sit in the marketplace compared with Qantas/Jetstar and Rex.

The other thing I haven't looked up yet is how these new fare classes interact with the Economy-X product, and will a pax on a Lite fare be able to purchase Economy-X or not? I presume there is nothing stopping this from happening. Seems like the prices for Economy-X have remained similar with most Economy X prices being between $35-$49 with only the long transcon Economy X prices being around $75.

Business saver is gone, so will be interesting to see where VA business fares land.

At the moment the airfare market is so distorted by interstate border closures and other Covid-19 effects on capacity, it's going to be a while until we can see how this works out for Virgin Australia.

 

[flydoc]

an obvious dis-incentive to existing higher tier Velocity status members to pick a Choice fare

Disincentive to pick a LITE fare/incentive to pick a Choice fare

Otherwise generally agree with your analysis

 

[eastwest101]

Disincentive to pick a LITE fare/incentive to pick a Choice fare

Otherwise generally agree with your analysis

Thanks for pointing that out, have edited it to correct it.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Would they (VA/Bain) be stopping at this en*(c)*hancement/... or will they go further in cost cutting, or revenue gouging?
If they can get away with this, whats stopping them from other things?
They are already using covid to again keep some lounges closed, and to have very minimum catering in the lounges that are still open.
Even if and when travel reopens, would they go back to running the lounge as it was in VA1 days, ((probably not)).
Ok, so VA WP won't fly on a VA YLite fare class, if they are being paid to travel, when our domestic travels are freer, but if they are paying their own way, would they pay the next fare class up to gain eligible sector tally?
Possibly the best policy now with VA is no more status chasing.

 

[Mattg]

Some interesting discussions about these new fare categories and their inclusions and lack of.

Are we mostly agreeing that the Lite fare category is so that VA appears close to or maybe even cheaper than Jetstar/Rex on flight aggregator sites such as Google flights/WebjetBooking.com/Expedia/Kyak etc?

Jetstar, most probably. Rex, no.

That's because Virgin is not actually offering any Economy Lite fares on routes where it is competing directly with Rex. On those routes, VA is matching Rex's fares with an Economy Choice offering (e.g. $39 for Economy Choice on SYD-MEL).

The other thing I haven't looked up yet is how these new fare classes interact with the Economy-X product, and will a pax on a Lite fare be able to purchase Economy-X or not? I presume there is nothing stopping this from happening. Seems like the prices for Economy-X have remained similar with most Economy X prices being between $35-$49 with only the long transcon Economy X prices being around $75.

It's still possible to pay for an Economy X seat if booked on a Lite fare, and there is no difference in price compared to "upgrading" on an Economy Choice or Economy Flex ticket.

If anything, I think VA may have actually reduced the cost of Economy X slightly on some routes. I've been seeing it for $28 or $29 on shorter routes since the fare brand changes.

Business saver is gone, so will be interesting to see where VA business fares land.

The actual "I" class fare prices seem to be the same as before, except that they now earn more status credits and come with greater flexibility. I've seen quite a few examples over the past week where Business was cheaper than Economy Flex.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Would they (VA/Bain) be stopping at this en*(c)*hancement/... or will they go further in cost cutting, or revenue gouging?
If they can get away with this, whats stopping them from other things?
They are already using covid to again keep some lounges closed, and to have very minimum catering in the lounges that are still open.
Even if and when travel reopens, would they go back to running the lounge as it was in VA1 days, ((probably not)).
Ok, so VA WP won't fly on a VA YLite fare class, if they are being paid to travel, when our domestic travels are freer, but if they are paying their own way, would they pay the next fare class up to gain eligible sector tally?
Possibly the best policy now with VA is no more status chasing.

Bain have no interest in holding the airline long term as a majority stakeholder, I think we can safely say that much. I'd say it would be a stronger proposition to sell an airline with loyal customers and a revenue generating loyalty program rather than an airline that cut its way to being sold off.

 

[odysseus]

Would they (VA/Bain) be stopping at this en*(c)*hancement/... or will they go further in cost cutting, or revenue gouging?

The thing is, this is neither.

It's adding a new pricing option to appeal to a different sector of the market.

You'd be right if they were changing their existing product offering, but they're not (substantially). In fact, they've actually added status credits to a number of existing products.

 

[MooTime]

Would they (VA/Bain) be stopping at this en*(c)*hancement/... or will they go further in cost cutting, or revenue gouging?
If they can get away with this, whats stopping them from other things?

WOW you must be kidding re revenue gouging.

My goodness.....they've introduced a 'Lite' fare, unbundled & pay for extras pax want.

Everything basically the same, few minor tweaks, hardly gouging.

They are already using covid to again keep some lounges closed, and to have very minimum catering in the lounges that are still open.
Even if and when travel reopens, would they go back to running the lounge as it was in VA1 days, ((probably not)).

Not using covid to keep lounges closed, they simply closed for good as unviable. They have stated 'closed for good'. Business model for some lounges Bain have decided just don't add up, hardly covid excuse.

Ok, so VA WP won't fly on a VA YLite fare class, if they are being paid to travel, when our domestic travels are freer, but if they are paying their own way, would they pay the next fare class up to gain eligible sector tally?

Would WP pay next fare up??? did you notice it was $20 difference??

Possibly the best policy now with VA is no more status chasing.

Well each to their own but apart from the Lite fare that I for one & many others I'm sure won't opt for as it's unbundled & carries less SC with sector not counting.

Then the J class seats have an increased SC offering, I see chasing W & retaining W as worthwhile & at least same as it was previously, unless the less lounges affects one, which is nothing to do with this latest fare Ann.

What some fail to understand, Virgin went bust, gonski, they were saved/bought by Bain, they wiped many debts, ditched some wings etc etc
They are a hybrid airline, match QF in couple instances & exceed them with 3 rows of Economy X free for WP.

Then match Jetstar with the Lite option now.
VA2 not for everyone, just as it's wasn't previously, highly doubt these latest changes would affect anyone's total view on the airline.

We are so lucky to have 2 brilliant airlines in VA & QF & not a bad LLC in Jetstar, squabbling over oh so minor deets is just noise.

come across below, just $10 difference, a no brainer to opt for Choice fare (MEL-OOL)

 

[Stealthflyer]

I dare say most Platinums aren’t flying on a Lite fare so no issue for me personally

I almost always fly on getaway fares. I earned my platinum status through international travel.

 

[AIRwin]

I've only noticed this in the last few days appearing on the QF app - most likely in response to VA's Lite fare? And is that a red Q Bag Tag for a Bronze member?

 

[ozstamps]

All those $$ millions Virgin spent on ads in recent years saying the exact same thing are all wasted dollars now.

Master Class stuff.

An airline that itself has no clue what it is.

 

[henrus]

And is that a red Q Bag Tag for a Bronze member?

The red ones have been available for awhile. Anyone can purchase them via the store.

Buy Qantas Q Bag Tag | Qantas Store

Use Qantas Points or points plus pay to shop for Qantas Q Bag Tag online on the Qantas Store. Shop here.

store.qantas.com

 

[Must...Fly!]

I've only noticed this in the last few days appearing on the QF app - most likely in response to VA's Lite fare? And is that a red Q Bag Tag for a Bronze member?
View attachment 256688

That's been there for ages, pretty sure I've seen it before.

 

[AIRwin]

That's been there for ages, pretty sure I've seen it before.

I must admit I've not noticed it until it appeared while waiting to display the results of surrounding dates when I was searching for a flight...

 

[odysseus]

All those $$ millions Virgin spent on ads in recent years saying the exact same thing are all wasted dollars now.

Master Class stuff.

An airline that itself has no clue what it is.

Things change over time.

Or does nothing change in your business ever?

 

[AIRwin]

This may be the first sale (other than Happy Hour) since the new fare categories:

Cheap flights to Melbourne (MEL) from AUD $70* | Virgin Australia

Find and book great value flights to Melbourne (MEL) with Virgin Australia. Good times, great fares. We can't wait to fly with you.

specials.virginaustralia.com

I looked at both BNE-MEL and SYD-BNE and while it is showing only Lite fares, it looks like Choice fares are also lower (in fact Business is only $10-$30 more than Flexi)...

 

[Mattg]

This may be the first sale (other than Happy Hour) since the new fare categories:

Cheap flights to Melbourne (MEL) from AUD $70* | Virgin Australia

Find and book great value flights to Melbourne (MEL) with Virgin Australia. Good times, great fares. We can't wait to fly with you.

specials.virginaustralia.com

I looked at both BNE-MEL and SYD-BNE and while it is showing only Lite fares, it looks like Choice fares are also lower (in fact Business is only $10-$30 more than Flexi)...

Choice fares are being priced $20 higher than the Lite sale prices. Good deal IMHO.

And I'm seeing many routes where Business is cheaper than Flex. I'm not sure if it's a deliberate tactic to try to get people to book Business, but it's a weird one.

 

[henrus]

And I'm seeing many routes where Business is cheaper than Flex. I'm not sure if it's a deliberate tactic to try to get people to book Business, but it's a weird one.

Something I hadn't though of earlier and not sure if it's been mentioned but the new fare rules also change the criteria to use Future Flight Credits.

Previously you could only use Future Flight Credits (FFC) on I business fares but now that has been changed to both I and D fares. This should make it a bit easier to use given they were previously and are still only releasing up to 4 I fares per flight but all 8 of the business seats are released as a D fare. It remains the case that FFC's can't be used for J or C fares.

 

[serfty]

...
Previously you could only use Future Flight Credits (FFC) on I business fares but now that has been changed to both I and D fares. ...

Is that so?

While I have not booked D class using FFC's - I have not tried.

I believed what is required is the specific sub class availability. My experince has been if that is available then any fare can be used with FFC's.

The only issue I have had is that promo codes can't be used with FFC's.

 

[mrmerc500]

Virgin has replaced its fare families. As some have predicted on here, the lowest fare category no longer comes with complimentary seat selection. It also doesn't come with a checked bag and earns fewer status credits.

Here are the inclusions for a CBR-BNE flight:

View attachment 255915

Getaway is now "Lite"
Elevate is now "Choice"
Freedom is now "Flex"
Business Saver is gone

All domestic flights still earn 5 points per $1 spent but there is a new status credit earn table: Virgin Australia

View attachment 255916

There are no changes to Velocity Reward Seat bookings, which still include a checked bag & seat selection.

More details here:

Virgin Cuts Bags, Velocity Benefits on New "Economy Lite" Fares

Virgin Australia has removed checked baggage, seat selection, a range of Velocity benefits, and reduced status credits, on its cheapest Economy Class

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

The Lite Fare certainly seems to have had a serious downgrade since it’s introduction.

A very restrictive ticket now with No Travel Credit option & $80 fee for any flights changes, plus the normal fare difference applicable.

This Fee also now charged on Choice fares within 14 days of flight - not the case previously!

For the minimal $20 - $30 difference, VA are probably finding the Choice fares to be the preferred option & not overly keen to sell Lite’s.

I see that even on segments that offer the Lite fare, it’s consistently unavailable on multiple days or across any flights on certain days.

VA’s proposition was to provide passengers with Value but with the unavailability & restrictions of the Lite ticket, it does seem to be more of a marketing ploy as VA see’s fit for purpose.