Business flight - one leg in Economy - Benefits?

[MEL_Traveller]

I've learned something new today (and should have known that, frankly, but it seems an obscure rule). Not sure how many same-day domestic Y connections I've had in the past with an international J flight same day but I have one coming up in 2 weeks and it meets this criteria, so I'll give it a try. Not even on the same PNR so it almost seems naughty to flash the J boarding pass for those flights but it does beat being in the QP lounge.

One world rules allow separate tickets and separate PNRs... the boarding pass is the determining factor. IME Qantas also accepts separate tickets/PNRs.

 

[Archphoto]

I’ll need to remember this myself! As an aside, would this also work with a domestic “international” leg?

I’m travelling for work 27/03:

QF593 ADL-PER Y
QF10 PER-MEL J

I’ll have access in PER but wondering if I can get access in ADL too?

 

[serfty]

PER-MEL is not "Long Haul International" by *O rules (must be 5+ hours).

Not sure about Qantas, I guess it won't hurt to try.

 

[Mrsfefe]

Hence this is my confusion in regards to lounge access. J or Q Pub?

So I am booking a single PNR, NTL-BNE-SYD-DPS-SYD-BNE-NTL

But as NTL-BNE and BNE-NTL is Dash 8 there is no J

Obviously NTL doesn't have a lounge so no issues on which lounge to use on the outbound but on the inbound its clear that I can use the J lounge in Dom at SYD but does the "International Connecting" rules apply to the second leg for the lounge in BNE?

A bit off topic, but have you been able make this booking online? As you point out, the only QF metal flight out of Newcastle is QantasLink to BNE, and therefore always economy. When then connecting to a QF flight in J, we always have to call Qantas ( and wait, wait, wait) to book the flight as a single PNR, as the website won't book a mixed cabin ticket. Have you found any way around this issue?

 

[motef]

A bit off topic, but have you been able make this booking online? As you point out, the only QF metal flight out of Newcastle is QantasLink to BNE, and therefore always economy. When then connecting to a QF flight in J, we always have to call Qantas ( and wait, wait, wait) to book the flight as a single PNR, as the website won't book a mixed cabin ticket. Have you found any way around this issue?

Im not sure what you mean?

A search on QF website for NTL-DPS comes up fine and is bookable.

 

[Quickstatus]

A bit off topic, but have you been able make this booking online? As you point out, the only QF metal flight out of Newcastle is QantasLink to BNE, and therefore always economy. When then connecting to a QF flight in J, we always have to call Qantas ( and wait, wait, wait) to book the flight as a single PNR, as the website won't book a mixed cabin ticket. Have you found any way around this issue?

It wont matter as QF is the carrier for all the sectors. So long as MCT (minimum connection time) rules are adhered to for each sector

Also If the airline sells the itinerary then its not a problem

 

[Mrsfefe]

Im not sure what you mean?

A search on QF website for NTL-DPS comes up fine and is bookable.

I've checked again, as we have only tried to book these mixed cabin fares domestically. You are quite right that if there is an international leg, it is bookable online, and at a price equivalent to each individual sector fare. We hadn't tried to book an international connection this way before.

The problem we have had is with domestic bookings, and it still appears to be a problem. The single PNR option comes up, but the total cost is roughly double what the individual sectors are priced at ( which can add over a thousand dollars to some routes). By going to the call centre we have been able to get the flights at the individual sector prices. It's a pain, but so much cheaper.

As Quickstaus rightly points out it is still Qantas all the way, but we have had mixed luck with getting bags checked through on different PNR. Sometimes check in staff will do it, but a few times we have been made to collect our bags and recheck them at BNE ( the connecting hub). I've booked separate PNR to avoid the call centre booking, but it's just too expensive to book it combined. Just one of those things I guess.

 

[Quickstatus]

Not unusual that even with different PNR for bags to not be checked through even on the same airline. I don’t know why but suspect that different PNR = more work at the checkin

 

[h15t0r1an]

Air New Zealand ground staff denied me access to the lounge in AKL in March 2016. I was flying Y in LAN to SYD then same day connection on QR in all J to Europe. I politely asked for lounge access and they refused. When I produced OneWorld documentation (still politely) they got really annoyed. A supervisor came. All my luggage and hand luggage was meticulously weighed and I was subjected to intensive search and questioning because I had dared to persist even politely with my request. I am reluctant to visit New Zealand again as all airlines seem to use Air New Zealand ground staff at AKL. I don;t want to encounter this level of nastiness again. Would I fly Air New Zealand? not if I can avoid it, now. What I was put through for asking politely and mentioning the Oneworld lounge access rule was outrageous and completely unjustified. Luckily I was very early for the flight at 5am as it was about two hours before they let me through after this nastiness.

 

[Mattg]

Air New Zealand ground staff denied me access to the lounge in AKL in March 2016. I was flying Y in LAN to SYD then same day connection on QR in all J to Europe. I politely asked for lounge access and they refused. When I produced OneWorld documentation (still politely) they got really annoyed. A supervisor came. All my luggage and hand luggage was meticulously weighed and I was subjected to intensive search and questioning because I had dared to persist even politely with my request. I am reluctant to visit New Zealand again as all airlines seem to use Air New Zealand ground staff at AKL. I don;t want to encounter this level of nastiness again. Would I fly Air New Zealand? not if I can avoid it, now. What I was put through for asking politely and mentioning the Oneworld lounge access rule was outrageous and completely unjustified. Luckily I was very early for the flight at 5am as it was about two hours before they let me through after this nastiness.

I assume you were trying to enter the Qantas lounge, not the Air New Zealand lounge?

As far as I know, the Qantas lounges in AKL are manned by Qantas staff.

 

[h15t0r1an]

I assume you were trying to enter the Qantas lounge, not the Air New Zealand lounge?

As far as I know, the Qantas lounges in AKL are manned by Qantas staff.

I just said "the lounge". May have been run by Qantas, may have been run by somebody else. I was checking onto a Oneworld flight in Y and connecting same day to a Oneworld flight in J that was longer than 5 hours. I was polite. Air New Zealand staff, who were apparently ignorant as well as nasty, really put me through the wringer. There was no cause for that. I did have the right to use the lounge and was completely polite. What they didn't like was I asked a second time and produced the documentation of Oneworld confirming my right which they didn't want to know about. It felt like NZ "tall poppy" syndrome was being done on me for daring to ask no matter how polite I was.

Left a really bad taste in my mouth and I don't want to fly out of AKL again and I don't really want to put myself in a situation of being at the mercy of Air New Zealand ground staff ever again.

Just to be clear, this was at checkin. I asked them for lounge access and showed my day's itinerary, I always ask about lounge access at any airport I don't fly through frequently as sometimes checkin staff have to give you a pass to the lounge even if you're entitled.

The reason I was dealing with Air New Zealand staff is that apparently they are contracted to handle ground stuff like checkin by all the airlines at AKL regardless of alliance. I was checking in at the official LAN checkin desk that was manned by them.

Put it this way. Soon after I made it onto the LAN flight - where I knew without even checking my boarding pass that the Air New Zealand ground staff would also have put me in the rearmost seat next to the toilets - I did not have to check this so know this after the way Air New Zealand staff had treated me - I burst into tears due to the strain. I had had to leave my father who was very ill, drive through the night to the airport and was there before checkin opening around 5am. So I was first to check in to the flight pretty much. as my baggage was being taken apart and searched and weighed meticulously, Air New Zealand staff just basically waved the rest of the queue through checkin without such checks. Because they had not dared to ask and then politely ask again.

Although I tried to conceal the fact that I was crying on the plane due to so much stress LAN staff could not have been nicer. I'll definitely fly them again and on a more expensive route. Air New Zealand? I'll do anything I can not to deal with New Zealanders with that kind of attitude and what they put me through, again.

My father died 5 days later.

 

[h15t0r1an]

Not unusual that even with different PNR for bags to not be checked through even on the same airline. I don’t know why but suspect that different PNR = more work at the checkin

Liability for bags lost lies with the airline checking in the bag on the first leg.
So I guess some airlines would rather not assume liability if there is a later separate PNR on the passengers itinerary?

 

[serfty]

Just to be clear, this was at checkin. I asked them for lounge access and showed my day's itinerary, I always ask about lounge access at any airport I don't fly through frequently as sometimes checkin staff have to give you a pass to the lounge even if you're entitled.

Avoid asking such questions at check-in; it is unlikely those behind check-in counter are fully aware of the rules for access. (Moreover if they are NZ staff working for LAN they would likely try to apply the more restrictive rules of Star Alliance.)

Just present your boarding passes/Tickets at the lounge entrance.

 

[serfty]

Liability for bags lost lies with the airline checking in the bag on the first leg.
So I guess some airlines would rather not assume liability if there is a later separate PNR on the passengers itinerary?

Actually, liability rests with the operating carrier of the last leg of a journey.

 

[h15t0r1an]

Avoid asking such questions at check-in; it is unlikely those behind check-in counter are fully aware of the rules for access. (Moreover if they are NZ staff working for LAN they would likely try to apply the more restrictive rules of Star Alliance.)

Just present your boarding passes/Tickets at the lounge entrance.

Next time I'll know better. I only asked at checkin in case this was one of the situations or locations where I would need to receive a lounge pass from checkin. However once I asked the question and especially once i asked politely again and produced the documentation, the subcontracted Air New Zealand staff manning the LAN checkin singled me out for the treatment they gave me which caused a huge delay.

At other locations I might ask tentatively again is a pass needed for the lounge though. However once I asked with the Air New Zealand staff (as they turned out to be) I think it was too late and I was in trouble already just for asking the first time.

Thankyou for the hint though never to ask at checkin if it can possibly be avoided.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Next time I'll know better. I only asked at checkin in case this was one of the situations or locations where I would need to receive a lounge pass from checkin. However once I asked the question and especially once i asked politely again and produced the documentation, the subcontracted Air New Zealand staff manning the LAN checkin singled me out for the treatment they gave me which caused a huge delay.

At other locations I might ask tentatively again is a pass needed for the lounge though. However once I asked with the Air New Zealand staff (as they turned out to be) I think it was too late and I was in trouble already just for asking the first time.

Thankyou for the hint though never to ask at checkin if it can possibly be avoided.

Star Alliance doesn't have the same 'connecting flight' rules that oneworld has. Air NZ staff at check-in (being star alliance) may likely have been unaware you were entitled. As serfty recommends, just move straight to the lounge if this happens again and try there.

The other complication is that the 'connecting' rule is ambiguous, at best. It refers to passengers connecting 'between' oneworld flights, not about passengers at their point of origin. This could be interpreted to mean only granting lounge access at a transit point.

Over the years it has become clear that it covers all flights, from point of origin right through to the last connection, but a few years ago this may not have been as widely accepted as it is now.

 

[h15t0r1an]

Star Alliance doesn't have the same 'connecting flight' rules that oneworld has. Air NZ staff at check-in (being star alliance) may likely have been unaware you were entitled. As serfty recommends, just move straight to the lounge if this happens again and try there.

The other complication is that the 'connecting' rule is ambiguous, at best. It refers to passengers connecting 'between' oneworld flights, not about passengers at their point of origin. This could be interpreted to mean only granting lounge access at a transit point.

Over the years it has become clear that it covers all flights, from point of origin right through to the last connection, but a few years ago this may not have been as widely accepted as it is now.

The rule was well established by that time. I had used it to access other J lounges without problem. Yes i would have still tried directly at the lounge after that. However having been there at checkin opening with at least 2 and a half hours they put me through thé wringer and would not let me through until very shortly before thé flight. Which i am sure was their intention. I van just about accepte the subcontracted Air New Zealand

 

[h15t0r1an]

..staff's ignorance but i just cannot accept thé completely injustifiéd nastiness of the Air New Zealand staff. As i saïd, i did not even look at m'y boarding pass before i went to m'y s'est - i just knew they would have given me thé s'est right at thé back next to thé toilet. It was classic checkin nastiness and for no good reason. I wondered if perhaps m'y race/gendre/âge had menant i was not supposéd to ask any questions or produce helpful documentation once i got thé fürst refusal.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The rule was well established by that time. I had used it to access other J lounges without problem. Yes i would have still tried directly at the lounge after that. However having been there at checkin opening with at least 2 and a half hours they put me through thé wringer and would not let me through until very shortly before thé flight. Which i am sure was their intention. I van just about accepte the subcontracted Air New Zealand

I agree the wording has been around for years, but it was far more open to debate several years ago. Sure, some airlines might have been giving it the more generous interpretation, but not all. Now the interpretation is on much firmer grounds (that it does indeed apply to all flights on the booking provided there is a long and short haul).

 

[jastel]

When I fly overseas (always QF and points upgrade, not paid) and score a Business upgrade I have at least one or two stops BEFORE the INT flight due to where I live and use the lounge at any airport I stop at by flashing the Business Class Boarding Pass. Have only been refused once or twice in probably 10 trips...just acted dumb if refused, not made a scene etc.
If its a short transit flight then I would only miss out an hour or two anyway so have not been particularly upset when refused.
I was never sure if I was correct or I was lucky using at stops that were not the Business Class Leg.
Only Silver, no Club membership.

Never used it on Arrival or home legs...normally heading for a hotel anyway...but good to know for next time.