New airline to fly Sydney/Melbourne in 3rd quarter rumour

[dajop]

much quicker to get in & out of Essendon than Tulla, both for aircraft & passengers. Suggest it might be as much as 15-20 mins each way.

15-20 mins is probably not significant enough to warrant a shift. Moorabbin doesn't have the capacity, but I am sure a Moorabbin-SYD service would be more attractive, the savings for some could be an hour.

 

[dajop]

That would be a game changer. But unfortunately the capital cost is enormous as our distances are far in excess of what the Shinkansens travel

It's not the distance, it's the population density. Fukuoka to Aomori at the top of Honshu is probably about the same distance as Melbourne-Sydney-Brisbane. With about 10x the population.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

lounges? ... I think most people want to spend as little time in airports as possible. Who has time to swan around a lounge all day, apart from public servants.

Whilst this is true (for me at least), it's worse when you finish meetings early and arrive at a deserted airport and have to wait hours on a hard bench, for the check in counters to open for the only flight of the day! That's when you really see the benefit of an airline lounge! (and yes, this used to happen to me on weekly basis, and even now from time to time depending upon where I am)

 

[Quickstatus]

It's not the distance, it's the population density. Fukuoka to Aomori at the top of Honshu is probably about the same distance as Melbourne-Sydney-Brisbane. With about 10x the population.

And that also allowes a high frequency service from centre of town to centre of town.
Eg
Kyoto to Tokyo Shinkansen runs every hour between 0600 and 2100. And it’s a 16 car set each Shinkansen. No idea about total seated capacity. Massive toilets each car almost the size of that on the EK A380 F

They are building the west coast Kanazawa to Kyoto Shinkansen @ Y2 trillion which will finally allow Tokyo to Kyoto/Osaka via Nagano and the west coast.

 

[ozfflyer]

Because I’ve done 5 returns on QF and 6 on ZL

Once you can offer onward connections on one ticket you have the business

Safety mean little on the mind of travellers these days. Some do travel on the basis of safety but I would not say the majority.

VH-OJH was not a write off. It was repaired and operated for a further 13 years. That’s a pretty good return on the repair bill.

there are 50 flights a week WGA/SYD. 11 is totally insignificant. WGA/SYD is a very different market to MEL/SYD. A large % of MEL/SYD market is not connecting.

VH-OJH was a write off. The insurance payout didin't cover the repair bill(so by definition a write off), but Qantas still repaired it in China of all places. Guess they didn't want to say they had lost a hull. You could see both externally & internally where it had been repaired. Dodgy at best.

 

[ozfflyer]

“As little time as possible”

. But here is the rub...

Road warriors and J pax often don’t know when they get to airport. Often they arrive early and depending on ticket can as you say minimise their time at airport by moving to an earlier flight. Or if they can’t, a lounge with free slosh is the preference

think most people would rather spend any spare time away from ANY airport.

 

[ozfflyer]

Hence the first problem. I'm not debating the cost difference between prop and jet. My argument is that pax flying SYD-MEL expect a jet. I've heard the argument that a turbo prop may be just as quick as a jet, but I personally don't subscribe to that theory. For me, given the choice of a jet or prop, I'd much prefer a jet.



Let's hope you're right. I actually like greater competition provided it doesn't drawn down on our niceties and safety. I tend to think not only does this concept need to be competitive, it most likely needs to be cheaper to draw the crowds. We've all seen what has happened with that in the past, QF definitely (and most likely VA) will slash their fares until the competition dies (unless they believe the competition will die of it's own accord). The only digression to this scenario will be if the new comer has a niche (the one that comes to mind for me is an all J experience, which has been pointed out was trialed and failed). For corporate travelers, it's not really about the price, it's about the facilities on offer. Although you tend to believe carrying your own luggage to plane (sometimes in the rain) is what people will see as a good thing, I believe the corporate traveler is conditioned to their luggage arriving on a carousel and the walk to the plane is via an aerobridge.

That conversation you mentioned may also include the words "and make sure it's not that mob leaving Bankstown as last time I didn't make it home that night to my family and it cost me $400 for a MEL hotel for the night because they couldn't take off due to ... "

if they have backup aircraft & no curfew to contend with, then why couldn't they operate a flight that night.

If last MEL/SYD flight at 2000 or 2015 goes U/S you would be stuck in MEL the night, unless you chartered an small aircraft not subject to curfew.

& no airline is going to even move their fares by $1 for a very small indirect competitor. Most of QF/VA turnover is based on golden triangle. I think the HUGE factor is the 3 hour saving on a return trip from Sydney home to Melbourne & back or vice versa. Time is money.

 

[Quickstatus]

VH-OJH was a write off. The insurance payout didin't cover the repair bill(so by definition a write off), but Qantas still repaired it in China of all places. Guess they didn't want to say they had lost a hull. You could see both externally & internally where it had been repaired. Dodgy at best.

Huh? that’s a new definition of a write off..
Write off is where the insurer says we will pay you out the agreed value (or whatever was in contract) and in return take possession of the wreck.

Hmm? I wonder how the aircraft was ferried to China to be repaired when pre-repair it could not take off...

 

[docjames]

Whilst this is true (for me at least), it's worse when you finish meetings early and arrive at a deserted airport and have to wait hours on a hard bench, for the check in counters to open for the only flight of the day! That's when you really see the benefit of an airline lounge! (and yes, this used to happen to me on weekly basis, and even now from time to time depending upon where I am)

And when you move your flex fare to an earlier flight (one leaves every 15-30-60 mins)......

 

[docjames]

I look forward to @ozfflyer’s TR on the inaugural flight.

 

[ozfflyer]

And when you move your flex fare to an earlier flight (one leaves every 15-30-60 mins)......

why would you need check in counters ? The figures on people moving their flights are very low. The whole flexibility thing is a con.

 

[ozfflyer]

I look forward to @ozfflyer’s TR on the inaugural flight.

Trip report ?

Why would I be on it ?

Just been following Moxy in USA & they seem to be planning on avoiding all major hub airports. Luckily in USA there's an airport on almost "every street corner" like councils in Sydney.

 

[Quickstatus]

why would you need check in counters ? The figures on people moving their flights are very low. The whole flexibility thing is a con.

Not a con. Lots of my road warrior friends change, or try and change even if their ticket is discount

Trip report ?

Why would I be on it ?

Just been following Moxy in USA & they seem to be planning on avoiding all major hub airports. Luckily in USA there's an airport on almost "every street corner" like councils in Sydney.

Most airports in USA don’t support commercial ops

OJH repair was overseen by Qantas and Beoing engineers and parts specially made by Boeing then freighted to BKK for repairs. I believe 3 new RR engines. Hardly dodgy when it went on to fly another 13 years with several D checks in the interim. Then ferried to China for painting. Hope that’s OK.

The Saab’s will be over 20 years old I think

 

[Deleted member 29185]

if they have backup aircraft & no curfew to contend with, then why couldn't they operate a flight that night.

If last MEL/SYD flight at 2000 or 2015 goes U/S you would be stuck in MEL the night, unless you chartered an small aircraft not subject to curfew.

& no airline is going to even move their fares by $1 for a very small indirect competitor. Most of QF/VA turnover is based on golden triangle. I think the HUGE factor is the 3 hour saving on a return trip from Sydney home to Melbourne & back or vice versa. Time is money.

I think the term for the arena you are now playing in, is " clutching at straws".

Honestly, what you and I think is not really relevant. If someone wants to put their cash where their mouth is, that's OK. If people choose to support such a venture in numbers to make it successful, then I'll be first in line to congratulate the initiative. In fact I hope that is the case. But to answer your questions posed to me:
1. Why couldn't they operate a flight that night? ANS - The money needed to do so. Often, is easier and cheaper to cancel the flight and reschedule.
2. If last MEL/SYD flight at 2000 or 2015 goes U/S you would be stuck in MEL the night? ANS - Who's talking about 2000 or 2015 apart from you? Unless this new player is thinking of a monumental investment in their idea, I'd suggest it will be likely a morning return and an afternoon return, Even that may be optimistic. Any idea of them running 2000 or 2015 flights is, well, unusual. At the times they are likely to schedule, QF and VA will have at least 1 or 2 other flights running that night.
3. Not sure if this is a question, but ... no airline is going to even move their fares by $1 for a very small indirect competitor. ANS - History tells us differently. Look no further than Strategic. They, as a small inconsequential airline, forced QF and VA to slash fares.

 

[Quickstatus]

And we will all find out who has the deeper pockets when it comes to a price way

 

[ozfflyer]

And we will all find out who has the deeper pockets when it comes to a price way

no price war could eventuate. QF/VA won't want any price reductions on SYD/MEL/SYD

 

[ozfflyer]

Where are anyone going to get a Saab from?. The Saab 340s production line was terminated about 20 yrs ago. in 2013? Rex purchased the entire S340 spare parts inventory from a US S340 operator. If some became available, ZL would be sure to compete strongly to buy them.

just got sent this link ...

Regional Archives - C&L Aero

this mob alone has over 2 dozen Saab 340s for sale/lease. Told that lease costs $20-$25k/month, depending on how long leased for & by who.

 

[Quickstatus]

no price war could eventuate. QF/VA won't want any price reductions on SYD/MEL/SYD

They have price warred before. So they have form.

 

[ozfflyer]

They have price warred before. So they have form.

that was with each other, not some small operation out of Bankstown.

Don't think the price war covered many seats, if any on 0600-0730 & 1600-1800 flights Mon-Fri, which is when both VA/QF make huge % of profits.

 

[Quickstatus]

that was with each other, not some small operation out of Bankstown.

Don't think the price war covered many seats, if any on 0600-0730 & 1600-1800 flights Mon-Fri, which is when both VA/QF make huge % of profits.

Which is why they can price war