New airline to fly Sydney/Melbourne in 3rd quarter rumour

Status
Not open for further replies.
what's the price ?

Are you talking higher fares ? Would they necessarily have to be higher ?

Not in dollar terms. No doubt the example business traveller will make a decision that says - travel from bankstown on a lesser known airline, e ven if it saves me time, versus, travelling from SYD on a well known commercial provider even if price + time is slightly more.
 
Not in dollar terms. No doubt the example business traveller will make a decision that says - travel from bankstown on a lesser known airline, e ven if it saves me time, versus, travelling from SYD on a well known commercial provider even if price + time is slightly more.
maybe, but think the price might not be the significant factor, but the time saving of 3 hours for a day trip might. Won't suit everyone, but gather than 50 seaters are about the limit out of Bankstown with a decent load & that's going to mean, an insignificant number of passengers, compared to those flying QF & VA SYD/MEL/SYD.
 
maybe, but think the price might not be the significant factor, but the time saving of 3 hours for a day trip might. Won't suit everyone, but gather than 50 seaters are about the limit out of Bankstown with a decent load & that's going to mean, an insignificant number of passengers, compared to those flying QF & VA SYD/MEL/SYD.
Let me offer an analogy

You can either drive on the older slower route using a well known car brand, or drive on the new motorway in a car thats not being proven and carried very few passengers?
 
The Frequent Flyer Concierge team takes the hard work out of finding reward seat availability. Using their expert knowledge and specialised tools, they'll help you book a great trip that maximises the value for your points.

AFF Supporters can remove this and all advertisements

Let me offer an analogy

You can either drive on the older slower route using a well known car brand, or drive on the new motorway in a car thats not being proven and carried very few passengers?
what if it is an existing airline, that doesn't fly Sydney to Melbourne currently ? eg. fly Corporate
 
I think Cebu put 436 passengers on their A330s. Not sure what Qantas has numbers wise, but surely 100 extra passengers means it takes longer to get to cruising altitude.

So you agree that using a smaller airport, is a much faster propostion ? That's what Neeleman (Moxy) is counting on in U.S.

further

Here's an example I saw for a U.S. airline using secondary ariports, modified for Bankstown to Essendon.


A business person living near Parramatta needs to go to Melbourne CBD for the day & be there by 9am.

By road Parramatta to SYD is at best, 51 mins on roads with tolls. Due to congestion, he/she needs to allow more like 90 mins.

Because of airport delays at both SYD & MEL ends, they book the 0600 flight, rather than a later flight, returning at 1800.

The only book the 0600 because on average, there will be delays somewhere en route.

So, they get up at 0300 to either drive or get taxi/Uber at 0400 to be at SYD by 0500-0530 for 0600 departure, to arrive MEL by 0735, but most days would get delayed, so their arrival time would most likely be closer to 0800. They then need to get out the airport(hopefully without having to wait for any checked luggage) & get a taxi/Uber to join the traffic into the CBD. They should get there before 0900.

But if they flew out of Bankstown, instead of 51 mins minimum to get to SYD, they are looking at 26 mins with no tolls.

Because of massive car parking charges at SYD many would incur the cost of a taxi/Uber, probably another AUD$50 to $70 each way, whereas at Bankstown, they could park right at the terminal, around 100m from parked aircraft, at no or negligible cost whatsoever. If they had any luggage, they would simply carry it to aircraft.

Other benefit of self driving, is you don't have to rely on Uber/taxi turning up on time, so you might order it to arrive 10 to 15 mins before actually needed.

Block times for a Saab/Dash 8/Dornier 328/Atr 42 turboprop might be slightly longer Bankstown to Essendon(but not a Dorneir 328 jet), than a jet SYD/MEL, but due to congestion at both SYD & MEL the difference would be negligible (airlines timetable their SYD/MEL at 1.35).

So instead of getting up at 0300 to be in Melbourne CBD by 0900, they could probably get up at 0430 to depart home by 0530 to be right at Bankstown terminal by 0555(25 mins up their sleeve to allow for traffic delays), to depart by 0630 to arrive at MEB by 0805. Exiting the aircraft at MEB would be much faster than at MEL & then could probably be in Melbourne CBD by 0835, as MEB is closer to Melbourne CBD than MEL, they would also save another 10 mins or so at least.

So less stress, possibly lower cost, 90 mins more sleep & that’s only in one direction.

Are any of the assumptions above incorrect in your opinion ?

There really is no relationship between weight and elapsed time. Commercial airlines operate to a schedule not weight. A bit more weight = a bit more thrust. They have a flight plan and a schedule and the cruise altitude might be lower or higher. Now a very heavy jet may need to fly at a lower altitude for a bit before losing some weight but eventually can arrive at a preferred altitude.

Flying at a lower altitude does not mean slower.
Look at the SIN-KUL route - the jets don’t fly over 30,000 ft

Your assumption with time depends on the timetable to be as you say. However with a small number of aircraft the operator can’t possibly compete on frequency. So what if the BWU departure arrives1 hour later (than the passenger would like) than the SYD departure. Or what if the afternoon return from MEB is less timely than the MEL flight. It all depends on the timetable so any assumption are at this point very rubbery.
 
Last edited:
There really is no relationship between weight and elapsed time. Commercial airlines operate to a schedule not weight. A bit more weight = a bit more thrust. They have a flight plan. Now a very heavy jet may need to fly at a lower altitude for a bit before losing some weight but eventually can arrive at a preferred altitude

Your assumption with time depends on the timetable to be as you say. However with a small number of aircraft the operator can’t possibly compete on frequency. So what if the BWU departure arrives1 hour later (than the passenger would like) than the SYD departure. Or what if the afternoon return from MEB is less timely than the MEL flight. It all depends on the timetable so any assumption are at this point very rubbery.
so if 2 aircraft based at Essendon & 2 at Bankstown ....

Mon to Fri the 1st aircraft from both airports could leave at 6am(maybe leave terminal at 5.55am) & arrive at other end at 7.30am. These could turnaround fast, if necessary & go back to where they came from & could probably leave at 7.45am & be back at other end at 9.20am.

2nd aircraft from both airports could leave at 6.30am & arrive at other end at 8.05am.

This would well & truly cover am peak hour demand.

Similarly in the late afternoon

1st 2 aircraft - Depart at 4.45pm, be at other end at 6.20pm.

2nd 2 aircraft - depart at 5.30pm, be at other end at 7.05pm

1st 2 aircraft could turn around & depart at 6.35pm to arrive other end at 8.10pm
No reason why they could do very fast turnarounds, if necessary.

During the middle of the day, they could do a smattering of flights + Sat am & Sun pm.

Might even be able to do with 3 or 4 crews.

When you think about it, Virgin Blue started with 2 old 737-400s & think they only did BNE/SYD/BNE initially.
 
so if 2 aircraft based at Essendon & 2 at Bankstown ....

Mon to Fri the 1st aircraft from both airports could leave at 6am(maybe leave terminal at 5.55am) & arrive at other end at 7.30am. These could turnaround fast, if necessary & go back to where they came from & could probably leave at 7.45am & be back at other end at 9.20am.

2nd aircraft from both airports could leave at 6.30am & arrive at other end at 8.05am.

This would well & truly cover am peak hour demand.

Similarly in the late afternoon

1st 2 aircraft - Depart at 4.45pm, be at other end at 6.20pm.

2nd 2 aircraft - depart at 5.30pm, be at other end at 7.05pm

1st 2 aircraft could turn around & depart at 6.35pm to arrive other end at 8.10pm
No reason why they could do very fast turnarounds, if necessary.

During the middle of the day, they could do a smattering of flights + Sat am & Sun pm.

Might even be able to do with 3 or 4 crews.

When you think about it, Virgin Blue started with 2 old 737-400s & think they only did BNE/SYD/BNE initially.


I think the Saabs runway to runway time will be a lot longer. Though overall time I’m not sure how long it will take for secondary airports. Maybe less taxiing time.
ZL:
WGA-SYD 1:10
WGA-MEL 1:15
 
I think the Saabs runway to runway time will be a lot longer. Though overall time I’m not sure how long it will take for secondary airports. Maybe less taxiing time.
ZL:
WGA-SYD 1:10
WGA-MEL 1:15
flights in & out of SYD & MEL will always have a padded timetable.
 
I think the Saabs runway to runway time will be a lot longer. Though overall time I’m not sure how long it will take for secondary airports. Maybe less taxiing time.
ZL:
WGA-SYD 1:10
WGA-MEL 1:15

DBO-BHQ is but 14 miles shorter than MEB-BWU. Scheduled time is 1:35 eastbound and 1:45 westbound.
 
DBO-BHQ is but 14 miles shorter than MEB-BWU. Scheduled time is 1:35 eastbound and 1:45 westbound.
so presume actual block time would be about 15 mins less or can someone tell us exactly if in a Saab 340 ?
 
so presume actual block time would be about 15 mins less or can someone tell us exactly if in a Saab 340 ?

This a Rex served Saab 340 route. Flightaware recent history suggests flight times about 5-10mins less than block time.
 
Sponsored Post

Struggling to use your Frequent Flyer Points?

Frequent Flyer Concierge takes the hard work out of finding award availability and redeeming your frequent flyer or credit card points for flights.

Using their expert knowledge and specialised tools, the Frequent Flyer Concierge team at Frequent Flyer Concierge will help you book a great trip that maximises the value for your points.

Yeah, I don’t know about you guys/girls, but I’d be happier, flying above most of the weather rather than flying in the mid teens, low twenty’s through it. The Saab also does not have an APU, so when the tarmac closes in summer due to lightning and there’s no air being provided it will certainly not be worth it (ask me how I know this).

I’m not saying there’s not a market for it, it is definitely an interesting game, but it needs to be the right aircraft with the right price for the operator. I suspect they will need deep pockets initially.
 
Also can't help but think, from a Melbourne perspective, flying out of Essendon is of marginal benefit. Needs somewhere in the south east.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Oxy
but they are probably not after the average punter, but rather frequent travellers who are sick & tired of all the big airport BS.
Don’t know about that. I suspect the high frequency traveller would still choose the big boys - these flyers often change flights at last minute. The secondary airports and startups will not service any connections incl the internationals until they go a bigger fleet. A clientele that only lives on Parramatta and surrounds won’t cut it.

Don’t forget the 2nd airport
 
Last edited:
Also can't help but think, from a Melbourne perspective, flying out of Essendon is of marginal benefit. Needs somewhere in the south east.
much quicker to get in & out of Essendon than Tulla, both for aircraft & passengers. Suggest it might be as much as 15-20 mins each way.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Enhance your AFF viewing experience!!

From just $6 we'll remove all advertisements so that you can enjoy a cleaner and uninterupted viewing experience.

And you'll be supporting us so that we can continue to provide this valuable resource :)


Sample AFF with no advertisements? More..
Back
Top