A Complete, Updated List of Fifth-Freedom Routes

blandy62 said:
seems that Egyptair has 5th freedom on BKK-HKG.
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This wasn't initially available for sale when the route started and still doesn't show on googleflights. But can be bought on line at Egyptair. No cheapies here at around AUD690 one way in business class ex HKG.
 
MEL_Traveller said:
This wasn't initially available for sale when the route started and still doesn't show on googleflights. But can be bought on line at Egyptair. No cheapies here at around AUD690 one way in business class ex HKG.
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No they didn't have it initially. With those fares (both C and Y), I don't think they will attract a lot of local traffic. And if their service is like that they used to have on the KUL-BKK run, definitely not worth the money
 
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Melburnian1 said:
3K flies MNL - KIX.
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MNL-KIX as operated by Jetstar Asia (3K) is a fifth-freedom route, but I hadn't added it to the list because Jetstar also has a base in Japan (i.e. Jetstar Japan) and the route is also served in fact by Jetstar Japan (GK). If you think it is worthwhile adding this, it can be done.

If I added this to the list, I guess I would also need to add DPS-SIN operated by Jetstar Australia (JQ).
 
AFF Editor said:
MNL-KIX as operated by Jetstar Asia (3K) is a fifth-freedom route, but I hadn't added it to the list because Jetstar also has a base in Japan (i.e. Jetstar Japan) and the route is also served in fact by Jetstar Japan (GK). If you think it is worthwhile adding this, it can be done.

If I added this to the list, I guess I would also need to add DPS-SIN operated by Jetstar Australia (JQ).
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Apologies for my 'senior moment' (though I'm not yet one) when I forgot GUM is a USA territory (re my request for UA flight MNL - GUM to be included). Bad error on my part.

I would add MNL - KIX (and DPS - SIN) because the JQ airlines are regarded as separate operations, and they have different code designations. That was the crux of JQ's argument re its ultimately rejected HKG arrangement if I recall. However, I acknowledge one can get to a position of splitting hairs. Definitional problems are such fun.

Overall it's an outstanding list even if the percentage of us who visit West Africa may be low. Not on my visiting list.
 
I've added MNL-KIX and DPS-SIN.

I accept your point that the various Jetstars are different airlines. It's not unheard of though for airlines to operate different code designations while still being the same airline, such as Easyjet (U2) vs Easyjet Europe (EC). And then there's the various LATAM airlines - LA, JJ, 4M, LP, PZ, etc. In LATAM's case, though, the flights are all marketed with an LA code.
 
AFF Editor said:
I've added MNL-KIX and DPS-SIN.

I accept your point that the various Jetstars are different airlines. It's not unheard of though for airlines to operate different code designations while still being the same airline, such as Easyjet (U2) vs Easyjet Europe (EC). And then there's the various LATAM airlines - LA, JJ, 4M, LP, PZ, etc. In LATAM's case, though, the flights are all marketed with an LA code.
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3K also operates CRK-KIX few times a week.

Now I am wondering about something. Within the EU, are flights operated by EU carriers not starting and ending in the operator's home country still consider a Fifth freedom flights, as it is a single aviation market?
 
blandy62 said:
3K also operates CRK-KIX few times a week.
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I've added CRK-KIX to the list.

Now I am wondering about something. Within the EU, are flights operated by EU carriers not starting and ending in the operator's home country still consider a Fifth freedom flights, as it is a single aviation market?
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It looks like a can of worms has been opened, but that's a good question. If anyone has any thoughts on this, feel free to chime in.

I guess it depends on the airline? Easyjet, Ryanair, Wizz Air etc. all operate flights from many bases all over Europe, so I wouldn't consider any flight on those airlines that starts or ends in the EU to be fifth-freedom. But then you have flights like ATH-TLV on Alitalia (which is on the list). Alitalia only has bases in Italy, so I would personally consider it fifth-freedom. But I guess it depends on your definitions. My gut feeling is that this example might not technically be considered fifth-freedom but, FWIW, I think it's best to leave those kinds of flights on the list because they're useful and many people are probably unaware that such routes exist.
 
Thank for the reply. Please keep posting those interesting routes within Europe even if they are not technically fifth freedom.

Drukair and Bhutan Airlines also have seasonal BKK-GAY-BKK. Typically from December to February. Bhutan Airlines already has it loaded in its booking system
 
blandy62 said:
Thank for the reply. Please keep posting those interesting routes within Europe even if they are not technically fifth freedom.

Drukair and Bhutan Airlines also have seasonal BKK-GAY-BKK. Typically from December to February. Bhutan Airlines already has it loaded in its booking system
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Thanks, I've added those. Interesting route.

FWIW, I was reading an article about Air Malta the other day and noticed that they referred to their LGW-CAG route as fifth-freedom. So perhaps those intra-Europe routes do qualify.
 
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