Still Value in Diners?

[TonyHancock]

This is becoming more complicated than a Fred Perry tasting menu........but dare I say more interesting!!

So.....I think there is still some value left in Diners. :shock: :shock: :shock:

The Amex Plat charge is my go to card for restaurants, 3 points per $, travel 2 points per $ and overseas transactions 2 points per $, and now ATO with a paltry 0.5 points per $.

Diners 2 points per $ works at Supermarkets, Petrol Stations, and anywhere else where Amex only offers 1 point per $.

The MasterCard that comes with diners is only of use where neither Amex or Diners is accepted.

This is based on transfer to SPG and then on to BAEC.

Am I missing something? I must be.

 

[twiningb]

Stone Me! They just waived the $299 fee for another year. Like you say it is free lounge access for a year. (Where PP isn't available)

(Actually Citibank Business did too but I canceled that anyway.)

....And then, on Friday, I received a monthly statement for the first month since the renewal. There were no transactions except for a $2 "statement generation fee". Last year when I didn't use it, they just didn't bother sending statements. Now they're sending statements with no reason except to charge (and then report!) the statement fee. I logged into the website (which required resetting my forgotten password again) and could find no way to opt for email-only statements.

I will be calling them shortly.

 

[whughes3]

It appears you have to call them to switch to e-mail statements; I did this myself recently.

 

[andye]

I remember getting a request asking me to agree to e-statements or would be charged. Cant remember if it was in the post or on the website. I can't find an email in my archive. Was many months ago though

 

[FromTheRail]

Just been doing a few calculations to see if Diners is still worth having or should I change over to Amex, please correct if I have anything wrong:

I know that transferring to SPG is changing so this is on the old figures, but if I know I have this right I can use it to work out the new figures in the future, I also transfer to aadvantage, and have mainly used them for business redemptions across Australia (i'm in Perth) and saving some up for redemptions to Europe.

Diners to SPG to aadvantage
2 : 1 : 1.25

So with the SPG bonus it works out as 2 diners :1.25 aadvantage or 1.25 aadvantage per $1 spent using the diners card.

A return flight in Australia is 40,000 aadvantage so it would take $32,000 worth of spend on the diners card
A return flight to Europe is 170,000 aadvantage so it would take $136,000 worth of spend on the diners card



Now I know Diners isn't fully accepted so i've been looking else where for more ways to utilise the card.

I've found B2Bpay and am thinking it could work out ok.

B2Bpay costs 2.4% +GST (2.64%)

For ATO spend this could be reduced but it would depend on circumstances, i'm not sure what it could come down to, anyone got an idea?

so using B2Bpay to pay $1000 it would cost you in total $1026.40, that would get you 2052.8 diners / 1642.24 aadvantage

each aadvantage point would cost you $0.025 which is slightly more that buying them straight from aadvantage at the cost of $0.0248 (depending on exchange rate, figure taken from the recent pointhacks review)

So a business class return in Australia would cost you $1000+booking fee
a business class return to Europe would cost you $4250+booking fee

To me this is a no brainer for ATO spend as the cost would be reduced, not sure about putting other payments through that wouldn't officially be business expenses.

If I wasn't using points for Australian flights I would prob be spending $500-600 anyway for eco so the $1000 cost is a push but kinda ok
For flying to Europe the most i've paid was just over $2000 in eco and the least was $1150 so $4250 is a bit of a jump but as the flight is longer the benefits are bigger.



As far as I can see the figures are the same if you use the Amex Explorer card, but it has more acceptance, has the travel credit, though it doesn't have the mastercard and you don't get the lounge benefits abroad which is good if you are flying eco. I'm not sure on the travel insurance comparison but will look into that.


I'm still stuck if I should stay with Diners or move to Amex, I suppose it's how the SPG/Marriott merger works out.

 

[albyd]

Have you had confirmation from Diners about the change to Marriott/SPG transfer rate?

Received a few flllow up calls initially. Was clear they didn’t even know what SPG was. Haven’t heard anything since. Might log into the rewards site in a few weeks to have a look.

For me, the cost of B2Pay for Diners is prohibitive but could use my Diners elsewhere if the maths stacks up.

 

[andye]

Despite the seemingly inevitable devaluation of the Amex:SPG/Marriott transfer, it still currently looks like the Explorer is better than Diners especially when linked to Amex Ascent. CX and SQ transfers alone cover Oneworld and Star Alliance pretty well.
Diners would have to come up with a great Marriott rate to tip the balance IMO. I doubt if anyone in Diners has a plan on what to do when SPG ceases to exist.They would have had a stream of complaints when the transfer rate was better but I, like albyd, suspect they are oblivious

 

[FromTheRail]

That is the way it's looking when I do the calculations, I've only looked at Asia Miles from MR at the moment, but it's cheaper and easier to gain points for flights PER to East Coast Aus and PER to Europe, but I don't exactly know what fees are charged on top of the points, with aadvantage its basically nothing.

If my calculations are right it's:

PER to Europe to PER - 180,000 asia miles - $90,000 spend
PER to SYD to PER - 60,000 asia miles - $30,000 spend
PER to AKL to PER - 90,000 asia miles - $45,000 spend

Using B2Bpay at the full 2.64% charge those flights would come out as:

PER to Europe to PER - $2314.89 +booking fees
PER to SYD to PER - $771.63 +booking fees
PER to AKL - PER - $1157.44 +booking fees

Depending on the booking fees I could see me using B2Bpay for more things than just ATO.

So from my first inspections I think Diners is done for me.

 

[PLANT]

Um going to Citibank thread but a heads up that Diners partnered with Citibank and getting card for free with Citibank....... Do not get lounge access. Started today!!!!!

 

[FromTheRail]

Diners has been run by Citi for a while now, am guessing they are trying to get more acceptance of the card by giving it away for free.


Citibank doubles down with new linked Diners Club credit card

by Chris Chamberlin | August 23, 2018

Citibank is broadening its portfolio of points-earning credit cards with a new Citibank Diners Club card, available in conjunction with the bank’s existing Citibank Platinum, Signature and Prestige Visa credit cards.

Issued by Diners Club but serviced by Citibank, cardholders have access to a single credit limit across both cards, a single card PIN, one online banking login and one credit card statement (and monthly payment), loosely resembling American Express dual-card accounts of the years gone by from the Big Four Banks.

Shoppers can earn 2 Citibank Rewards points per dollar spent on Diners Club purchases using the Linked Diners Club Card – equal to one Virgin Australia Velocity point for Citibank Prestige and Signature cardholders (2:1 conversion), or 0.8 Velocity points for Platinum members, when converted from Citibank Rewards at a 2.5:1 rate.

Citibank Qantas Rewards members can instead earn one Qantas Point per $1 spent via Diners Club, whether holding a Citi Platinum, Signature or Prestige credit card, with all points awarded on Diners Club spend uncapped, but with the usual exclusions such as no points on government payments.

While Diners Club acceptance in Australia trails Visa, Mastercard and American Express outside major businesses like airlines, hotels and chain stores, using the Linked Diners Club Card overseas comes without any international transaction fees, compared to the 3.4% charge levied by Citibank on the attached Visa.

What’s more, Diners Club is accepted in the USA wherever Discover cards are welcome (helped by a Discover logo on the back of the card); in China wherever UnionPay is accepted; in Japan wherever JCB is valid; in India via the RuPay network; and as a BC Card in South Korea, joining other Diners Club merchants worldwide for increased acceptance, and at no additional annual fee over and above that charged on the linked Citibank Visa card.

New Citibank Rewards customers who opt-in for the Linked Diners Club during their Prestige, Signature or Platinum credit card application can also earn 10,000 bonus Citibank Rewards points after their first Diners Club transaction within 90 days, when applying by March 31 2019.

Existing Citibank Rewards Platinum, Signature and Prestige cardholders can also contact Citibank to request the Linked Diners Club Card to begin earning points at higher rates, when using the Diners card.

However, Citibank has confirmed to Australian Business Traveller that Linked Diners Club cardholders will not receive access to Diners Club's global airport lounge network, a perk that will remain reserved for cards both issued and serviced by Diners Club, including the Qantas Diners Club Card and the Diners Club personal charge card.


There's no change to the Priority Pass airport lounge benefits included with Citi's Prestige and Signature cards – being one unlimited membership with Prestige, and two complimentary visits per year with Signature – so these cardholders can whip out their Priority Pass card instead to access many of the same lounges.

 

[andye]

Diners has been run by Citi for a while now, am guessing they are trying to get more acceptance of the card by giving it away for free.


Citibank doubles down with new linked Diners Club credit card

by Chris Chamberlin | August 23, 2018

Citibank is broadening its portfolio of points-earning credit cards with a new Citibank Diners Club card, available in conjunction with the bank’s existing Citibank Platinum, Signature and Prestige Visa credit cards.

Issued by Diners Club but serviced by Citibank, cardholders have access to a single credit limit across both cards, a single card PIN, one online banking login and one credit card statement (and monthly payment), loosely resembling American Express dual-card accounts of the years gone by from the Big Four Banks.

Shoppers can earn 2 Citibank Rewards points per dollar spent on Diners Club purchases using the Linked Diners Club Card – equal to one Virgin Australia Velocity point for Citibank Prestige and Signature cardholders (2:1 conversion), or 0.8 Velocity points for Platinum members, when converted from Citibank Rewards at a 2.5:1 rate.

Citibank Qantas Rewards members can instead earn one Qantas Point per $1 spent via Diners Club, whether holding a Citi Platinum, Signature or Prestige credit card, with all points awarded on Diners Club spend uncapped, but with the usual exclusions such as no points on government payments.

While Diners Club acceptance in Australia trails Visa, Mastercard and American Express outside major businesses like airlines, hotels and chain stores, using the Linked Diners Club Card overseas comes without any international transaction fees, compared to the 3.4% charge levied by Citibank on the attached Visa.

What’s more, Diners Club is accepted in the USA wherever Discover cards are welcome (helped by a Discover logo on the back of the card); in China wherever UnionPay is accepted; in Japan wherever JCB is valid; in India via the RuPay network; and as a BC Card in South Korea, joining other Diners Club merchants worldwide for increased acceptance, and at no additional annual fee over and above that charged on the linked Citibank Visa card.

New Citibank Rewards customers who opt-in for the Linked Diners Club during their Prestige, Signature or Platinum credit card application can also earn 10,000 bonus Citibank Rewards points after their first Diners Club transaction within 90 days, when applying by March 31 2019.

Existing Citibank Rewards Platinum, Signature and Prestige cardholders can also contact Citibank to request the Linked Diners Club Card to begin earning points at higher rates, when using the Diners card.

However, Citibank has confirmed to Australian Business Traveller that Linked Diners Club cardholders will not receive access to Diners Club's global airport lounge network, a perk that will remain reserved for cards both issued and serviced by Diners Club, including the Qantas Diners Club Card and the Diners Club personal charge card.


There's no change to the Priority Pass airport lounge benefits included with Citi's Prestige and Signature cards – being one unlimited membership with Prestige, and two complimentary visits per year with Signature – so these cardholders can whip out their Priority Pass card instead to access many of the same lounges.

That's not going to cause Amex any sleepless nights

 

[FromTheRail]

That's not going to cause Amex any sleepless nights

So true, thought they might have tried a bit harder. Shame they can’t put no exchange fee overseas on the actual Diners card, though it still wouldn’t be enough for me to stay.

 

[FromTheRail]

With Citi giving away Diners for free, the more I think about it the more my head says that they want the number of people using Diners to go up and the only way it seems they can do it is give it away for free to people with another card, means they can use those numbers in marketing, any other thoughts??

 

[albyd]

Might help them to get wider acceptance of Diners much like the bank issued Amex cards helped with this. Nothing like a lot of customers with their higher points earning Diners asking ‘do you accept Diners?’ To pressure merchants to accept it.

Their problem might be a lot of their savvier customers may already have an Amex. Just a matter of whether they realize they’re still getting better value than Diners for their annual fee vs no annual fee free kick with Diners.

 

[FromTheRail]

Might help them to get wider acceptance of Diners much like the bank issued Amex cards helped with this. Nothing like a lot of customers with their higher points earning Diners asking ‘do you accept Diners?’ To pressure merchants to accept it.

Their problem might be a lot of their savvier customers may already have an Amex. Just a matter of whether they realize they’re still getting better value than Diners for their annual fee vs no annual fee free kick with Diners.

I do find it a bit of a kick in the balls for those who are actually paying for a Diners card, they get it for free, which is fine, but the no overseas transaction fee pisses me off!!

 

[andye]

I was able to add mstr andye1 as a free supp to my waived-fee Diners for his trip to Europe. He made good use of the lounges.

 

[andye]

The forthcoming amex devaluation made me look back at the earn rates......but no, Diners is still rubbish

 

[albyd]

I was going to re-visit it too since I just got the new tap card and waived annual fee. Looks like Citi we’re ahead of the curve with their changes as much as this will make it harder & more expensive to get to the pointy end.

 

[andye]

I came up to annual renewal time. Not spent a $ since being given points to keep the Dual account open 4 months ago.
Asked to cancel. Offered downgrade to DC alone and waived annual fee for me and for mrs andyes supplementary.
Will keep for the lounge access (though I already have priority pass) but doesn't seem to be much in it for Diners

One year on and not spent a cent.
Called Diners to ask whether they will waive fee again-told they would reverse any renewal fees charged

 

[Spongbob]

For me the value of DC is nil. So I called to cancel the card. I was offered the same arrangement as andye (waived annual fee and lounge access only rewards).
Still no value for me, so I cancelled the card, which I have not used (for the reasons noted by others on AFF) for several years.

 

[newmarket]

I like the 2 velocity points per dollar. Is there a better option?