Are free upgrades a thing of the past?

[ddd]

I'm flying Etihad economy tonight out of SYD and when I checked in there was barely any line. I'm VA gold so I got to check in at the business counter (3 open counters with no passengers at them) and got chatting to the bloke at the desk. He mentioned that first class is empty and business is half empty. Thinking this would be my once in a lifetime chance to fly long haul business I asked if there was any chance he could bump me up, and he replied that unfortunately he can't - airlines (not just etihad) don't really do free upgrades anymore because they lose money from it.

Fair enough I'm not complaining, I've got what I paid for, but I was just quite surprised that's the case. I would have thought the cost to the airline of business over economy would be negligible if the seat is going empty anyway.

Anyone had similar experiences?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And how would you rate the quality of product between the airlines that do this and those that don't?

I'm guessing it's referring to USA domestic. Given they all do the same thing I guess it evens out. Overall I rate US domestic F (J) above AU domestic J.

 

[mrsterryn]

Son and his brand new wife received an upgrade SYD to HND back in late July
They are both bronze and the highest my son ever attained was gold on Qantas
Husband in Nov (?) Last year flying to new York was upgraded from business to first for the leg Syd to LAX. They do exist
As he was flying Syd to JFK you can't request an upgrade

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Everyday some of the biggest airlines in the world give away tens of thousands of "free" upgrades for just this reason! ... For management of those companies, this proves to be an extremely cost effective loyalty and retention mechanism.

And how would you rate the quality of product between the airlines that do this and those that don't?

I'm guessing it's referring to USA domestic. Given they all do the same thing I guess it evens out.

If they "all do the same", surely that somewhat negates the assumption by dk4?

Personally, in my limited experience, an airline that crams a premium cabin, often has a sub-par product. If they had a policy of routinely doing that, it would make me less likely to book them if I were a premium traveler, so I wonder just how effective that proposition actually is. Have the "cost sensitive" traveler (perhaps) flocking to you (I have my doubts about that assumption, if they "all do it") to buy the lower fare bucket tix, whilst watching the higher value pax choose another airline to gain a bit of peace and privacy and the service for which they are prepared to pay extra cash??

I've often wondered about QF dom J. It's nearly always full so I wonder if that's predominently op-ups, paid upgrades, freebie upgrades or paid outright? I also wonder if the QF product is sub-par (which I find it is) because of this, whereas the VA dom J cabin is often not full (despite having fewer seats), but they seem to manage the J promises so much better. It's a deliberation I'm currently having with myself, so I was curious with all three quoted posts above.

 

[Pierre_a]

I got upgraded Y - J in 2010 MEL - SIN.

Worst thing that ever happened to me.

I've been obsessively finding ways to ensure I only turn left ever since.

 

[dajop]

Everyday some of the biggest airlines in the world give away tens of thousands of "free" upgrades for just this reason!

There are many operational models for how to run an airline, each with their pros and cons. Some of the posts above refer to airlines with marketing models, where they don't give away "free" upgrades into empty Business Class and First Class seats, and explain why - so now it's time to mention a different approach.

What some of the largest airline operators in the world do, is upgrade their most frequent fliers for "free" into empty seats in the next class, just before boarding at the gate. Many frequent fliers on those airlines specifically choose that particular airline for all their travel, because of the possibility of getting that upgrade!

Yes, that is true, although you won't get an upgrade on on these airlines simply by asking for it, unless you are elite, and preferably top tier elite! Also anecdotal evidence around the blogs, suggests as the competition has been reduced and airlines become more profitable, such upgrades are not as easy to come by as they were 10-15 years ago. Not sure how much that is just bloggers trying to generate traffic or there is some truth to it.

Qantas does seem to now operate quite full as well in business class, they seem to have worked out how to maximise points redemptions for upgrades, without necessarily disincentiving paid fares.

I'm guessing it's referring to USA domestic. Given they all do the same thing I guess it evens out. Overall I rate US domestic F (J) above AU domestic J.

I think it may depend on sector length, and whether your preference is to drink alcohol or eat. I'd wager that if you flight is less than 2.5 hrs (or after 8pm) it might be better in AU, but better in US for sectors greater than 2.5 hrs.

 

[turtlemichael]

I've had several at the gate because Y was full - all domestic I think.. I had several on CX in the days when they did it occasionally for other airlines higher status pax. Only happened when I was a WP.

The one different is the one that sticks in my mind. It was shortly after 9/11 and the QF flight Oz-LAX was sparsely populated as not a lot were flying. I was thanked at the gate for my "support at this time" and moved up to J. That gesture kept me loyal to QF for a long time.

 

[dk4]

And how would you rate the quality of product between the airlines that do this and those that don't?

Personally, I would rate Delta & American (two of the biggest airlines in the world, both of which use the "free" upgrade loyalty system) higher than Spirit & Southwest.... and that is just one example. (But obviously not everyone else would, given that Southwest is one of the big four in the USA - so there is a substantial market base that likes what they do, and Spirit has a fairly strong business too).

In a competitive market place there are many different airline positions and offers - that is the whole point of competition, something we really don't have here in what is basically a 4-branded-closed domestic duopoly in Australia. And therefore we don't get the depth or breadth of market positioning that exists elsewhere in the world.

If you want me to compare quality of 37-39" pitch Domestic First Class as a concept in the USA with what is on offer as a "second cabin" at the front of single aisle aircraft elsewhere, then IMO for example - it is SUBSTANTIALLY better than what is on offer across most of Europe and about ON PAR with Australia.

Some airlines (which offer "free" upgrades) in the USA also have lie flat First Class AND lie flat Business Class on selected domestic routes - now that's impressive to me!

As for the OPs original situation - Etihad would appear to be in dire financial stress, so having a market positioning which is too similar to Emirates or Qatar is obviously a failure for them, and IMO they need to do a radical rethink!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I think it may depend on sector length, and whether your preference is to drink alcohol or eat. I'd wager that if you flight is less than 2.5 hrs (or after 8pm) it might be better in AU, but better in US for sectors greater than 2.5 hrs.

That’s a tough one for me! Would i rather have a good solid drink for a flight under 2.5 hours, or have to go through the whole pretentious service on QF and be lucky to (a) get the toasted sarnie and (b) even get served before the start of descent.

 

[dajop]

That’s a tough one for me! Would i rather have a good solid drink for a flight under 2.5 hours, or have to go through the whole pretentious service on QF and be lucky to (a) get the toasted sarnie and (b) even get served before the start of descent.

There are carriers (other than QF) who can manage a full food and beverage service, without the pretentiousness on 1-2.5 hr flights! But what's wrong with a Neil Perry inspired, jambon et Gippsland fromage de cheddar served on seared Fitzroy sourdough?

 

[Quickstatus]

The MH A350 service between SYD and KUL has a F cabin of 4 suites. When only J is sold for that flight those 4 seats are generally free upgrades for OW Emerald level passengers who have purchased J. Just have to log into the MH manage my bookings and choose the seat early. Row 1

However MH is NOW selling F tickets on the SYD-KUL leg on the A350 flights. So hopefully they don't sell all 4 to F passengers and leave some for free upgrades.

Mind you when a free upgrade occurs the service may still be a J service (if the aircraft is not selling F), though you get 4 sticks of satay instead of 3

 

[JohnK]

I've often wondered about QF dom J. It's nearly always full so I wonder if that's predominently op-ups, paid upgrades, freebie upgrades or paid outright? I also wonder if the QF product is sub-par (which I find it is) because of this, whereas the VA dom J cabin is often not full (despite having fewer seats), but they seem to manage the J promises so much better. It's a deliberation I'm currently having with myself, so I was curious with all three quoted posts above.

The past 12-18 months I've noticed less sitting in business class but recently Qantas have removed more flights from schedule and business class appears to be full again.

I'd be surprised if many pay for business. I'd think for SYD-BNE many would be using 5,000/10,000 point upgrades.

 

[Quickstatus]

SYD-ADL and return tends to have a thin J patronage. Recently paid the minimum for upgrade $150 +3000 FF points each way. (Saver fare)
Full J when I got on, but when my upgrade bid was approved there was only 1-2 seat s already selected.

So no, no free upgrades. Why when they can get some cash and wipe out some points.

 

[badseed]

As others have mentioned, airlines have a whole range of reasons why they might upgrade someone. Kindness of their corporate hearts has little to do with it ;-)

I've been lucky as someone with typically the lowest status to get upgrades on BA twice from LHR to JFK (once had to move to later flight), but that has been as a solo traveller both times, on a popular flight time, on a busy day, when I've checked-in early. Both times they had a clipboard with potential candidates. Status was not identified on the clipboard, but no idea if it had been factored in with the order / priority.

Other routes I've been lucky on are MEL - SIN with SQ, (Y to J) and also MEL - LAX on QF (PE to F!), but in that case I was travelling as an assistant to a CL member who was in F - who knows what they whispered to the CL Lounge team - I was too busy downloading last-minute documents to listen in ;-) I was also upgraded PE to J on the return to MEL when I was heading back alone post-conference.

 

[trooper]

.

Some airlines (which offer "free" upgrades) in the USA also have lie flat First Class AND lie flat Business Class on selected domestic routes - now that's impressive to me!

As for the OPs original situation - Etihad would appear to be in dire financial stress, so having a market positioning which is too similar to Emirates or Qatar is obviously a failure for them, and IMO they need to do a radical rethink!

Are you SURE that there are free upgrades on THOSE flights?

 

[equus]

I'd be surprised if many pay for business. I'd think for SYD-BNE many would be using 5,000/10,000 point upgrades.

Quite a lot would be, but I also expect that there are quite a few "paid" seats which are not just point to point. Plenty of people transiting domestically to/from an International J/F connection (for whatever reasons they need to transit), will be sitting in J but have not "paid" the domestic point to point fare. In many cases, the domestic leg is essentially free, as the origin / destination cities are common rated.

How many AFF have added an "extra" domestic leg to a DONE etc., so get a free "paid" leg?

 

[drron]

Yes most of our QF J flights are paid flights as part of an International fare.
But starting to use AA awards now as well.

 

[Mattg]

I'd be surprised if many pay for business. I'd think for SYD-BNE many would be using 5,000/10,000 point upgrades.

I always assumed most were connecting to/from an international flight in J out of SYD.

 

[JohnK]

I always assumed most were connecting to/from an international flight in J out of SYD.

That could also be the case although one can see business travellers up front so assuming domestic business travellers.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I'm flying Etihad economy tonight out of SYD and when I checked in there was barely any line. I'm VA gold so I got to check in at the business counter (3 open counters with no passengers at them) and got chatting to the bloke at the desk. He mentioned that first class is empty and business is half empty. Thinking this would be my once in a lifetime chance to fly long haul business I asked if there was any chance he could bump me up, and he replied that unfortunately he can't - airlines (not just etihad) don't really do free upgrades anymore because they lose money from it.

Fair enough I'm not complaining, I've got what I paid for, but I was just quite surprised that's the case. I would have thought the cost to the airline of business over economy would be negligible if the seat is going empty anyway.

Anyone had similar experiences?

You need to factor in the loss of future J class sales to the airline if the opportunistic NB flyer were to be have been upgraded when they sit next to a pax who has paid thousands of dollars to sit there. The first thing they're going to do when they sit down is boast to their seatmate they've just scored a free upgrade to J.

What incentive is there for the paying J class pax to keep on buying paid J tickets if free upgrades are given out like candy to other pax who display zero loyalty to that airline?

 

[Mattg]

Of course the first thing they're going to do when they sit down is boast to their seatmate they've just scored a free upgrade to J.

The few times I've received op-ups, the gate agent has asked me not to discuss the upgrade with other passengers on board. I thought that was fair enough.