Indonesia AirAsia 'technical issue', PER-DPS

[mannej]

Being discussed here - Another AirAsia 'technical issue', PER-DPS

 

[TerryW]

Couldn't agree more with the last line of AviationInsight.Also one statement in an interview said there was no oxygen coming through the mask,i am led to believe,as it has never happened to me, that there is still oxygen coming through the mask even though you do not sense/feel it.If i am incorrect please feel free to correct me.I am sure it is in some airlines safety briefing.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Interesting to note that oxygen is no longer a priority, and that taking selfies is more important.

Oxygen may fuel a fire, but selfies make things EXPLODE

 

[AviatorInsight]

Couldn't agree more with the last line of AviationInsight.Also one statement in an interview said there was no oxygen coming through the mask,i am led to believe,as it has never happened to me, that there is still oxygen coming through the mask even though you do not sense/feel it.If i am incorrect please feel free to correct me.I am sure it is in some airlines safety briefing.

The lines in the safety briefings are “oxygen will flow through the mask even though the bag may not inflate”.

I suspect people actually didn’t listen to the safety demonstration in that you actually need to “pull the mask firmly to start the flow of oxygen”. Just having the masks drop down isn’t enough to get it to activate. You need to actually pull it and disengage the pin.

 

[ermen]

The lines in the safety briefings are “oxygen will flow through the mask even though the bag may not inflate”.

I suspect people actually didn’t listen to the safety demonstration in that you actually need to “pull the mask firmly to start the flow of oxygen”. Just having the masks drop down isn’t enough to get it to activate. You need to actually pull it and disengage the pin.

I have listened to upteen safety demonstration videos and never knew that you had to pull the mask firmly to activate the flow or oxygen or what have you not.

Actually just shows that the safety video (or even the mask itself) needs to be designed better because this is a detail that is not apparent in the way the videos are presented across all airlines.

 

[drron]

Couldn't agree more with the last line of AviationInsight.Also one statement in an interview said there was no oxygen coming through the mask,i am led to believe,as it has never happened to me, that there is still oxygen coming through the mask even though you do not sense/feel it.If i am incorrect please feel free to correct me.I am sure it is in some airlines safety briefing.

And one TV report showed a short video where most of the masks were on the chin or top of the head if they were anywhere near the body.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

You would expect crew to be shouting instructions very loudly in these circumstances. Whether that = 'hysteria' who knows. There should also have been some sort of [very loud] instruction over the tannoy which comes on automatically when masks drop. The volume is designed to still be heard in the event there's a breach of the cabin and the sound of rushing air would make normal announcements inaudible.

 

[ALH]

I have listened to upteen safety demonstration videos and never knew that you had to pull the mask firmly to activate the flow or oxygen or what have you not.

Actually just shows that the safety video (or even the mask itself) needs to be designed better because this is a detail that is not apparent in the way the videos are presented across all airlines.

I’ll admit to hearing “pull the mask firmly.....”, many many times, but not consciously thinking about needing to disengage a pin. I think I’d be worried about yanking it too hard and breaking the line!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Just saw the footage on the news. There was little if any panic from what I could see... everyone looked pretty calm, and the crew commands were shouting, but not hysteria. CASA is quoted as saying 'the cabin crew may have been shouting... they're supposed to'.

 

[BAM1748]

Don't forget many tourists would have bought their yearly or 5 yearly holiday tickets and hotel via a deal at a travel agent. They would have little interest in the quality of the airline versus the price paid.

While we all know what is supposed to happen and why there is a sudden dive, many wouldn't.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Just add it to the list of reasons why I won't ever fly them.

A cabin full of panicing F/As (and thereby instilling panic amongst most passengers) is just inputting even more risk in to whatever situation is occurring.

As PF said...they were before and they still most certainly are on my "no fly" list

 

[straitman]

Just add it to the list of reasons why I won't ever fly them.

A cabin full of panicing F/As (and thereby instilling panic amongst most passengers) is just inputting even more risk in to whatever situation is occurring.

As PF said...they were before and they still most certainly are on my "no fly" list

Looking at the footage of the incident I didn't see much in the way of panicking FA's. It probably could have been handled a little better but they need to yell to get the attention and reactions needed. People here who are regular flyers are saying they don't recall all of the safety brief details let alone an aircraft full of holiday makers.

I'm actually interested to research the full relationship between the various parts of Air Asia. How affiliated are they and do they share any training setup or facilities? Just because one section has an incident does it relate to the others? From the little I have read thus far Indonesia Air Asia appears to have little relationship other than the name.

One question also. Who here would fly Garuda but not Air Asia?

 

[Andz]

I have flown both and would fly both again. Flying Batik soon to Bali....

I was a passenger on a Garuda flight (Bne-Den-Jak) when we lost an engine and retuned to Brisbane airport.

 

[Quickstatus]

I'm actually interested to research the full relationship between the various parts of Air Asia. How affiliated are they and do they share any training setup or facilities? Just because one section has an incident does it relate to the others? From the little I have read thus far Indonesia Air Asia appears to have little relationship other than the name.

One question also. Who here would fly Garuda but not Air Asia?

Lots of airlines are subsidiaries and the relationships gets murky.

I avoid high growth airlines and high growth low cost subsidiaries definitely avoid. - Air Asia is one of them.
I would fly Mainline Garuda ahead of TG. Didnt TG have some regulatory issues recently?
Air Asia definitely not - many subsidiaries, high growth, low cost, and also because of QZ8501
EK was /is a high growth airline so did not fly them for a while. But do now as they are mainline

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Lots of airlines are subsidiaries and the relationships gets murky.

I avoid high growth airlines and high growth low cost definitely avoid. - Air Asia is one of them.
I would fly Mainline Garuda ahead of TG. Didnt TG have some regulatory issues recently?
Air Asia definitely not - many subsidiaries, high growth, low cost, and also because of QZ8501

I thought TG was due to the country, rather than TG specific?

agree however... high growth, low cost, large numbers of new pilots straight out of flying school, and I guess equally as important.... they must also need a bunch more mechanics? Not a good recipie (although there's no suggestion the pilots behaved any less than professionally in this case).

 

[Quickstatus]

I thought TG was due to the country, rather than TG specific?

agree however... high growth, low cost, large numbers of new pilots straight out of flying school, and I guess equally as important.... they must also need a bunch more mechanics? Not a good recipie (although there's no suggestion the pilots behaved any less than professionally in this case).

I cant remember if TG is an airline or country issue
It takes more than pilots to make an airline, maybe even a country - USA (to a lesser extent Australia) is a good example of an aviation culture which was leveraged into a successful commercial airline industry.

Some countries have created an airline industry before they had a aviation culture.

EK/UAE is an outlier because it just successfully imported all the people/technology/infrastructure

 

[mannej]

I cant remember if TG is an airline or country issue
It takes more than pilots to make an airline, maybe even a country - USA (to a lesser extent Australia) is a good example of an aviation culture which was leveraged into a successful commercial airline industry.

Some countries have created an airline industry before they had a aviation culture.

EK/UAE is an outlier because it just successfully imported all the people/technology/infrastructure

Thai was a Government regulation issue, and not focused on TG itself.

 

[Happy Trails]

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Thai airlines can now add flights to the growing China, South Korea and Japan markets after the U.N. International Civil Aviation Organization removed a red flag against Thailand over safety concerns, officials said on Monday.

Thailand was downgraded in June 2015 after its regulator missed a deadline to resolve significant safety concerns, meaning that airlines were unable to add further international routes, though they could continue to operate routine flights.



Thai air safety upgrade opens up growing China, Korea, Japan markets

 

[straitman]

Lots of airlines are subsidiaries and the relationships gets murky.

I avoid high growth airlines and high growth low cost subsidiaries definitely avoid. - Air Asia is one of them.
I would fly Mainline Garuda ahead of TG. Didnt TG have some regulatory issues recently?
Air Asia definitely not - many subsidiaries, high growth, low cost, and also because of QZ8501
EK was /is a high growth airline so did not fly them for a while. But do now as they are mainline

No comments on the rest as it's a very personal thing but I won't fly Garuda due to their training culture.

 

[jb747]

As AVinsight has already said, this was not a rapid or emergency descent. Which then begs the question of what it was, and why was it being done.

As the masks have dropped, it means that either the cabin exceeded 13,800' or they were manually deployed. If you have an issue with the packs, it's quite possible to get the aircraft down quickly enough that the cabin won't get so high that the masks auto deploy...but the descent rate (we see here) is anything but serious. If the cabin is over the automatic deployment level, then you have no business doing such a slow descent.

You don't manually deploy them unless the cabin is already over the auto height...it's a backup to the automatic system...that's all.

So, now we have a couple of approaches at Coolangatta that weren't properly flown. Two fan blade failures (which the engineers tell me will happen if you don't correctly blend the nicks they get in normal use). An engine failure from high level in which they flew past not one, but two, adequate airports. A departure with the IRUs not aligned. And a pseudo depressurisation....